Feminist activist sent to prison for ‘Allah is lesbian’ T-shirt - Morocco

True. But to go to jail for 2.5 years for a slogan on a t shirt seems ludicrous, no? No one has been hurt or maimed.

I can't believe how many people are saying 'meh whatever she should have known'.

I'd be interested to see whether a man would have got a shorter sentence.

I’m not “ callous “ In my opinion I think she is foolish and this isn’t the first time she has been in this situation. She isn’t helping raise awareness of anything, or doing something that will make a difference to anyone or anything.

Seems harsh...may I ask how you know her? What makes you describe her as a 'loose cannon'?

Even if she is, how is or NOT brave to risk prison? Are Morrocan prisons cushy??

Plus apparently she has cancer? Even braver to risk prison with that...

Your comment seems rather callous given these circumstances.

Fair enough. It seems unlikely that Moroccan Muslims or even Muslims in general are going to stop being offended if they perceive someone insults Allah. Offence is fine as long as no one is put in prison etc

What a foolish comment, ironically not 'we'll' clarified either. You've never met a feminism who understands what it is or can define it? Do you think no one on FWR can define it?

Feminism means, to quote Gloria Steinem, whose preferred definition is also mine, 'acknowledging the equality and full humanity of women with men'.

The dictionary definition is "an advocate of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes'.

Obviously like all movements there are different branches & eras : first-wave, second-wave, third-wave in the UK & US, other countries emphasising different aspects, then gender critical vs TWAW, difference feminism vs no-difference, radical vs liberal feminism, 'sex work is work' vs anti-prostitution, lesbian feminism, Catholic feminism, etc Plenty of these groups will disagree with each other on a lot, but they will all affirm that women are equal to men and should be treated as such & will advocate for what they perceive as women's rights issues.

That's not unique. There are Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox Christians, and within those branches like Quakers, Universalists, Calvinists, sedecavantist Catholics, Methodists, Lutherans, Mennonites, Anabaptists etc etc They all, however, share the core belief that Jesus is our Lord and saviour.

I'm yet to even meet a feminist who knows or understands what feminism is not to mention to be able to give it a definition. It's not a group of people we'll known for their clarity

Stop trying to talk sense to these people. They don't yet know the meanings of "gender-critical" or "feminism" despite how many people have tried to teach them.

We can all acknowledge that what she did may have been against Moroccan law (an idiot could point this out) but if your thoughts on the matter stop there then you shouldn't be calling yourself a feminist.

I'm sure there are Facebook groups full of bald men who have more enlightened discussions than this place.

I get she is trying to be.

I still think she is daft.
Equally I don't think anyone should be sensitive to be offended.

Do you think she should be pinished for offending?

Can't you see she KNOWS it is, and is protesting the unjust law, not 'attention seeking'?

She is saying God is a lesbian?

Allah means God in Arabic.

So she could offend anyone who is following a faith and finds it offensive.

I just think she is daft and attention seeking.

Imo what she did was foolish, and it’s not the first time either. Brave is a word i would use to describe the women of the SOE in WW2, not a loose cannon like Betty, who I happen to know , and whose actions have made absolutely no difference to anything or anyone except herself.

I've just come back to this thread and it seems that segregation should have been maintained in the USA and apartheid in South Africa

Of course she shouldn't have been banned from the UK. Until recently, the UK was built on a platform of free speech. You should be able to come to the UK and speak your mind. Generally as a culture that's who we are.

Other people might be interested in the Lauren Southern UK parallel to this case. Here's the article where I found out about it, which also contains worrying info on US & Canadian white nationalism & misogyny on the so-called 'alt right'.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/10/alt-right-star-racist-propagandist-has-no-regrets/616725/&ved=2ahUKEwiZ2qPupPWPAxVgQkEAHXdWMOgQFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2CcDd0dm7GvfR-7kB5jtdO

Out of interest, Alicealig, what do you think of the case of white nationalist (I don't use that term lightly, she is genuinely one) Lauren Southern, who went to a Muslim-dominated area of the UK & handed out leaflets saying 'Allah is gay'. She was banned from the UK for this!

I think it's outrageous she was banned & I don't disagree in theory with what she did, though given how homophobic US white nationalists often are, I'm doubtful whether she was driven by any motive to help gay Muslims. It's seems much more like a trolling move to offend, though she did make an eye-opening point about the de facto Islam blasphemy laws we apparently have here...

Do you think she was right to do what she did? I expect you also agree she shouldn't have been banned from the UK.

I agree re segregation. I've read about the experiences of the first children to enter segregated schools in the Deep South and a lot developed PTSD, had horrible bullying and violence directed at them, in one case, even attempted murder.

MLK's approach of using children in protests etc was really controversial within the Civil Rights movement, and I think it is a blot on his legacy.

Stuff like the busing policy, which was a kind of successor to that, didn't work well arguably. I do think the element of forcing change is often counterproductive.

You don’t gaf what I think but still need to come on the thread ten hours later to tell me… sure 🙄

I think there can be a worthwhile discussion to be had about the extent to which it is a good idea to use the courts as arbiters in a manufactured way, rather than trying to lobby for legislative change.

The former has been quite effective at creating change at times, especially in places like the US with their approach to the constitution.

But the change it creates can be almost violent, and it can fail to bring people along, even solidify opposition.

Even looking back at the school segregation win in the US which is considered and early success in terms of changing social attitudes, as I get older I sometimes wonder if it was as successful as we think. Because I suspect the main reason it was effective is because the balance of the public view was already in favour of that kind of change And when you consider the real children who were involved I think it was very harsh on them, almost using them as political objects rather than treating them as children.

I suspect a slightly more organic process would have been slower to start, but would have come to the same place, and maybe even brought a few people over who were alienated by the whole thing.

That's all speculation, but when court decisions don't reflect the views of a large part of the population, there is a lot of scope to cause serious problems.

Wow. Nice to be allowed to decide who is a Real Feminist.

There is an implied criticism of Islam's views on women and sex imo, but it's pretty low key. She must I think know that there isn't a serious theological point to be made about about God being a lesbian, and that's not what she's looking for. She could make an argument about depicting God as male, and she could do that from within a Muslim discourse, at least theoretically, but I don't think that's the point of the shirt.

The Hebdo cartoon is a political statement, from a non-Mulsim POV, which not only breaks a major religious taboo in Islam, it is also using that depiction to call Mohammad a terrorist, the implication being that Islam is inherently a terrorist religion.

Are you following the conversation? The comment was that the shirt was not as offensive as the cartoon, and you asked why. I said they were quite differernt because of the way they were or were not making serious criticisms.

I don't particularly gaf what you think about it one way or another and I wasn't saying anything about what the law should allow.