Struggling with my political allegiance now and it's really bothering me

Immigration in the UK is also based on skills and other factors very similar to Australia. I have been through the immigration process here. The UK also reports similar low unemployment figures.

I think there is some conflation here with legal immigration and illegal immigration.

Australia’s asylum seeker population is nothing like the high population European countries are experiencing. I am not sure you are understanding the issues clearly.

All I would say is, Stephen Yaxley Lennon doesn’t care about women anymore than Farage or Trump, they would all sweep away our rights in a heartbeat if it suited them, they may not believe people can change sex, but they are misogynists just the same.

I think that is something we've known for a long time, but yes, worth reminding ourselves that is hasn't changed.

The big eye opener for me though is that left leaning men only cared about women's rights when it benefitted them (ie abortion rights). The second women's rights came into conflict with men's 'rights' to enter women's spaces, they dropped women so fast.

So quite honestly, I now see them all as different sides of the same coin. They all only give a shit if it aligns with their own political priorities.

There ARE definitely serious issues with immigration. But we do NOT need Robinson.

Here is a list of his many crimes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Robinson

This is excellent; the narrative has been for a while now that you’re either left or you’re right, you either 💯 believe that men can miraculously become women or you’re a bigot, it’s all so polarising because it benefits politicians, there is no nuance anymore.

I really feel for you OP having Zarah Sultana as your MP, she’s once of the most divisive out there.

I think the best we’ve ever been able to hope for when voting, is that the party we choose are mostly aligned with our values, you’re never going to agree with anyone all of the time. I have already decided to spoil my ballot paper at the next election, as a protest vote, because I don’t feel in anyway aligned as far as my rights as a woman are concerned, with any of them.

All I would say is, Stephen Yaxley Lennon doesn’t care about women anymore than Farage or Trump, they would all sweep away our rights in a heartbeat if it suited them, they may not believe people can change sex, but they are misogynists just the same.

Also, I feel 'the left' has done an incredible hatchet job on right wing politics, so that we've all been brain washed into thinking right = bad.

There are right leaning values i can totally get behind.

Personally, I feel like I've always been happiest in the centre. The Blair years were (in the main) the best it's been IMO.

Yeah, I agree with this. This is not the left I grew up with. That left, which was focused on the working class, seems to have more or less disappeared.

That's exactly what happens in Australia. Required skills are a necessary entry condition except for maybe a small portion being emergency asylum seekers. Let's not forget Australia's unemployment figures are low (4%) so there is a need for both skilled & unskilled given most of the citizenry won't do the unskilled jobs necessary to keep the country going. Much of Australia's infrastructure is a product of unskilled laboir.

JazzyJelly · Yesterday 22:53
Absolutely. The Left left me! Agonised over who to vote for in the locals. Still disappointed the Communists didn't stand in my area.

Is communism the answer? There won’t be much free speech if they get into power.

I totally relate op. In the general election I was able to vote for a sensible, left leaning independent candidate but I probably won’t be as lucky next time. I keep meaning to check out Blue Labour after reading an interview with Maurice Glasman in The Observer - don’t know if anyone knows more about them?

That immigrants in some areas commit more crime is a function of poverty

Maybe then it's not a good idea to import lots of people who are going to struggle to find work. We could restrict immigration to people with useful skills and tie being able to stay in the country to remaining in employment.

I'm hoping Labour can turn it around the prospect of a Reform government is a scary prospect.
I think you're spot on with lower paid workers and benefits and how that would work out.
Immigration does need taken in hand and some are making a very nice living from it IE hotel contracts and I agree we can't have all and sundry wandering in to the UK but the hatred that's being displayed is not the answer.
Taking the kids to hotel protests to shout abuse at poc is not going to turn out well rounded individuals in future years.

Yes. I know and agree. But the poster seemed sure about it so I am wondering why they have that perspective.

It started with the 2008 economic crash.

we never recovered from it and as you say so much damage to younger generations.

It didn't start with Brexit. The same political patterns are throughout the Western democratic world.

It started with the 2008 economic crash.

There's clearly lines of divide that opened up with this - if you are over the age of 47 you economically are much better off than those under 43. It's a really hard and fast line. This represents the 2008 crash - those who owned property prior to the crash are significantly better off than those who didn't (some exceptions with those who bought just before the crash and we're screwed over by it).

The problems are most pronounced in the US and UK because the gap between the richest and the poorer is biggest.

We've also increasingly sought to drive down costs in response by closing manufacturing jobs down and outsourcing to outside the west. This has meant less jobs for those in traditional manufacturing towns in provincial areas. Disillusionment has risen in those areas with a feeling that subsequent governments have neglected their responsibilities to these areas.

With no jobs in provincial towns, young people have migrated to cities, largely taking jobs in the service sector. Many are low paid whilst housing costs have spiralled. There is a new class of low paid, well educated young people who have metropolitan views and are unable to relate to older people from provincial towns who have less economic mobility.

It's all about this growing gap between cities and provincial towns. It does not help that politicians by nature are culturally more exposed to the city because that's where they work and socialise. Not an old industrial town where all the shops have shut because no one has any money to spend in them.

Brexit was merely a reaction to this underlying problem. It was easy to blame Brexit rather than address the underlying issues. And so that's what's happened.

The COVID happened which basically amplified the economic problems caused by 2008.

@RedToothBrush great post

But if I agree with him on one thing, do I have agree with him on everything?

Isn't this part of the problem? politics is so divisive & so many seem to be all in one side & not prepared to entertain a conflicting viewpoint.

Same. Looking down the ballot paper was like looking at a list of diseases and selecting which one you wanted to be infected with.

I voted tactically in the end as whilst I shredded my Labour membership card some years ago - a move which subsequent events have convinced me was correct - I couldn't stomach the egregious Tories getting in again.

My preferred choice of party are unlikely to make there merest dent in voting figures, much less form a government...

...which is, of course, one of the fundamental problems with a FPTT system. By its very design it will always tend towards minority rule and a two party state.

This isn't a left right problem for you.

This is a liberal authoritarian problem for you.

Understand this and you might start to understand it's not a you problem.

You believe in rights and freedom. This is actually separate from economic considerations which are left v right.

Instead of thinking of politics as a straight line between left and right, think of it as a square with four separate areas - liberal right, liberal left, authoritarian right and authoritarian left. Everyone falls somewhere within this.

The current left parties are pitching a position which is massively out of touch with the majority of the population. Party members hold more polarised views, than parliamentary party members who in turn hold more polarised views than traditional voters for these parties. This is a massive issue. Political parties are increasingly being run by individuals who have more extreme views than normal voters. This represents a loss of grass roots contact and understanding of the electorate and a growing sense of not being represented. Political parties are for the members not the public.

You are far from alone in your feelings. It's an acknowledged and recognised problem by political analysts.

The left has become increasingly authoritarian and narrow minded. You have to believe certain values and act these out publicly. You can not question certain orthodoxies. You are just supposed to accept what you are told. This is top down power against the public.

You on the other hand believe individual voices at street level hold value and should always be respected and listened to. You think concerns should be acknowledged, even if they are in areas of contention. You believe power should be held to account and that there are responsibilities and standards you expect from politicians that are not being met.

The left has essentially said certain topics are off limits are they are not prepared to have conversations about issues in sensitive areas because it's inconvenient to their inflexible belief system. The public then feel they are not being listened to and taken seriously.

It is essential in a democracy we have public debate over the more difficult and sensitive issues which are deeply complex. Politicians don't want to do this anymore because they are so scared out their party members and being cancelled. So things have festered and resentment has built up.

This underlying sentiment of disillusion has been picked up by parts of the right. They are chasing support and actually listening to grievances and acknowledging them. To be honest, this is often as far as it goes - they don't have a solution - but the acknowledgement of the problem itself feels to the public as something meaningful.

It is not that you have become more right wing. It is a failure of the left to represent you and opportunism by the right to capitalise on the failures of the left.

Note, I don't believe there is really a widespread enthusiasm for the right and right wing policies. Just a backlash against the left and the right are trying to fill that void.

Talking to people I know who have voiced that they intend to vote Reform this is a universal theme. There IS racism involved to a degree, but it's more dissatisfaction of the quality of peoples lives declining and then struggling economically. They don't feel they can turn to the left anymore because they've been failed.

Ironically if Reform do get in I don't see this improving. Their actual economic policies are vastly at odds with the public's feelings. They benefit the rich not those struggling. But they are very good at selling the idea of 'the undeserving' to those not at the rock bottom but struggling just above that. Reform will do the same as Trump and remove taxation responsibilities from the top and squeeze those below harder and remove benefits that many rely on. That will include top ups for those in work, but wages will not rise to fill the gap. The gap between rich and poor will increase.

What's likely to then happen is a long term swing back to more socialist policies but honestly I think we are a good ten to twenty years off that.

And the left wing are going to have to shed a lot of their wing nuts to get to a place where the public will trust again.

So basically it's not a you problem.

“When I look at the UK, it feels like looking at a spreading contagion that began with Brexit”

Did it start with Brexit? Or is it a European wide issue where other major countries are reporting similar issues? What do you believe Brexit did that changed things?

Yaxley Lennon and his kind are a blight on society,the extreme far right is definitely pulling strings and giving motivation for what's happening in the UK.
These organisations have been around for decades the name's change but the message is always the same.
They've waited years for an opportunity like this Racial hatred/race war has always been their ultimate goal.
Reform are not extreme far right but they feed off the mayhem and they'll detest the anti immigrant protestors because they're simply not their kind of people IE multi millionaires but merely cannon fodder to do the dirty work.

I certainly can relate. My origin is southern Italian so I'm often mistaken being from the middle east or west Asia & let me tell you post 9/11 there were consequences for me where I travelled largely stoked from an unfettered media. I suspect Australia really has kept on top of enforcing their race/sex/gender/religious vilification laws in recent times that ensures media entities don't get out of control. Of course some people who never experience the consequences of vilification consider this 'censorship'. For the rest of us its survival.

They’re not the left

I wonder if the difference that you are seeing though, is one where illegal immigration is an issue Australians understand from long experience. However, since I have moved back and forth between Australia and UK, I am seeing numbers of illegal immigants are so much higher in the UK af the moment. The growing surge here and across Europe is not something that has been really experienced in recent history.

The difference between legal and illegal immigration is obviously significant. I am not sure there is a country at the moment who has a model that is ideal.

Sorry, I was agreeing with fromorbit.

Totally agree. I think people should be more aware of Robinson's disgusting activities. He has certainly said & done good things on immigration, grooming etc (well, apart from his EDL stint).

But there are plenty of people who have done that and have not done this :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/20/family-in-fear-after-tommy-robinson-shares-video-of-black-man-with-white-granddaughters

How can anyone here support a man who smears an innocent mixed-race family and makes them afraid of thugs? Very ugly behaviour.

Also, this Allegation is that he said he would falsely accuse Lizzie Dearden's husband of being a paedophile when she was investigating some dodgy financial dealings of his.

Obvs could be wrong, but something to keep in mind.

https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/tommy-robinson-given-stalking-ban-after-threats-against-independent-journalists-partner/