Posting upton’s old photos and name on twitter

@Biggadyboom Do you realise that those of us not on twitter cant read replies to posts? So the horrors you are complaining about are not visible to us?

I'm not on X because I regard it as a bit of a cesspit. You clearly are so if you see hateful comments respond to them saying that.

At the start of this case there was some sympathy for Upton on mumsnet. What this case has revealed about the actions of his employer, his actions in the witness box and the "contemporaneous" notes that were anything but, the behaviour of his defence team have all reduced sympathy for this one person. When you start equating that with transphobia then you look like yet another trans activist pretending to be gender critical.

Well he is a pervert based on his perverted behaviour and she appears to be an enabler. Failing
to see why calling this out is deemed ‘transphobic’.

Go and take issue with the forum where this material is actually being posted, rather than deciding the nearest available women must be to blame. Women (and Mumsnet) are not responsible for what others do, say, and write on the internet. And we are sick and tired of being made scapegoats for others' behaviour.

It's also a truism that amid all the concern over transphobia, no one apparently gives a shiny shit about misogyny. One is apparently worthy of hate speech legislation. The other isn't. As ever, women are viewed as the lesser humans.

👏👏👏

I too would like to know @Biggadyboom- what word should be used for a man for trues to force women to undress in front of him or perform intimate examinations on female patients without their consent, or putting the onus on the patient in a very vulnerable position to challenge whrn they’d already expressed female only care or weren’t able to consent due to illness?

What word should be chosen? In your view…

Is that transphobic per se, rather than just the same kind of harassing behavior anyone who is an even slightly controversial public figure, for any reason, receives?

She wants to accuse members of this board of being responsible for "hate" posted towards Theodore Upton on a completely different site then she can damn well be included in her own accusation.

Isn't that the truth?

No, Upton O'Good's wife should not be brought into this. No, publishing photos from his SM is not okay. No, his bullying of a female colleague who dared to say 'no' - putting her through a protracted character assassination and attempting to end her career - is very definitely not okay. Relentless bullying whilst you cry that you are the victim is devious, manipulative and does not meet the standard of integrity required of a medical profession. Nor does outright lying in court.

I doubt you are going to find much sympathy with your little scolding here, OP. This noise is getting hold and women have had it dinged in our ears for over a decade. Go and take issue with the forum where this material is actually being posted, rather than deciding the nearest available women must be to blame. Women (and Mumsnet) are not responsible for what others do, say, and write on the internet. And we are sick and tired of being made scapegoats for others' behaviour.

It's also a truism that amid all the concern over transphobia, no one apparently gives a shiny shit about misogyny. One is apparently worthy of hate speech legislation. The other isn't. As ever, women are viewed as the lesser humans.

Any further comment as to what I really think about this cowardly, disingenuous post would break talk guidelines. Suffice it to say, no wonder so many of us are sick to the back teeth of this shit.

I have followed this case in social media via Mumsnet only. Nowhere else. Only in this thread, today, have I heard for the very first time what Dr Upton's first name was at birth. I did not wish to know this, and will.continue to avoid this media, particularly in relation to Dr. Upton's spouse. I don't think the call is coming from inside this building.

oops double posted. Apols

I'm with you @Biggadyboom (and I've been sceptical of TWAW etc etc since forever, certainly when Prof. Greer objected to a man winning a Fellowship at Newnham College).

I know I'm not transphobic: I've had (GRC) trans colleagues & a relative transition - whatever makes them happy, is my view on private individuals. My beef is about the TRAs attempt to radically restructure society and undermine the fundamental definition of what it is to be a woman.

But I have noticed that since the TRAs really ramped up the attack on women's rights, (particularly feminists' arguments & rights to speak) that I have been far less accepting of all the random TW and TM I encounter. I am privately quite scathing of them, and am starting to notice a certain sort of old fogeyism about "the young people" the "blue haireds" and so on. I don't like this about myself, although I'd defend myself by saying it's a pretty human response to a bullying misogynistic category of people.

I work in a very captured area of a generally captured profession, so I try to check myself and relax about individuals just living their lives, as long as they're not trying to stop me or blocking my rights. My main concern is that gender extremist ideology is trying to change everyone's views & rights, not just advocate for stopping the bigotry around transvestites.

I know (and I've had this discussion with a number of feminists whom I admire greatly - such as Sheila Jeffreys) that the use of 'womanface' is a playing out of a sexual fetish & requires us to participate, but I can resist that in daily life. a trans-identified man can't control my opinion of or thoughts about him.

But I do think that we need not to stoop to the "ugly woman is a man' trope that TRAs use. We shouldn't stoop to personalise the battle - we need to be very clear that we're fighting for structural, general rights, not the bullying of individuals.

That said Dr Upton sounds like a pretty repulsive selfish man ...

So if he wasn’t trans you’d be ok with people calling him that? If not, why not?

You still have not answered my question. You object to pervert and enabler being used, please answer my question below.

"So what word do you use to define men who watch nonconsenting women undress knowing full well they are uncomfortable with it? What word do you use to describe men like this who try to get women fired for complaining about undressing in front of them? What word do you use to describe those that support this behaviour?"

I’m conflicted on this (the principal of taking the high road on Upton on SM). I don’t like the whole shaming thing on SM. It feels a little cruel and unnecessary.

But… I don’t have a lot of sympathy for him, given what’s come out during the tribunal. It’s pretty obvious that he not only stirred up shit for SP (helped by a large party of willing enablers) but appears to have been quite happy to make accusations up about her professionalism and practice.

I can think of many friends and acquaintances who’d have crumbled under the pressure Sandie was put under. A lot of people wouldn’t have stood up to all that shit and would have walked away and/or been railroaded through the ‘process’ and been sacked. In probably 90/100 instances, Upton would have got what he wanted and the targeted person would have been screwed.

So in that respect, he deserves (almost) anything he gets. Perhaps it’ll prove to be a teaching moment for others that would seek to emulate his actions. We can live in hope.

Given that he would provide care to women who asked for a female clinician, I don't care. I would go as far as saying it is important for any potential future patients to be aware of what the man pretending to be a woman looks like.

The day Upton chose to use those changing rooms was the day he needed to understand actions have consequences.

I do however have some empathy for his parents and his wife who married a man.

Upton got his medical registration changed to reflect his new gender, without having gone to all the faff of waiting for two years and applying for a GRC. Here is a man who is happy to throw demented pensioners who misgender him and women experiencing a menopausal flood under the bus but heaven help anyone who dares to question his choices about his ‘privacy’.

I get lots of bird photos because I follow a dude called CarlBovis. He takes good pics. Like his puffins.

where he looks a bit feminine bald

While obviously not agreeing with any insults or family members being dragged in, and not being on twitter, I think photos from the time he started using the changing room are fair game.

It is disingenuous for the news to only show a head and shoulders recent photo of him, where he looks a bit feminine and you can't see his size or the context. That leads to the idea that you wouldn't know it was a man unless someone told you, that SP cares about what's in his pants, is gossiping etc.

The fact he was very clearly and obviously a man should be part of the narrative. His size and look could realistically be seen as intimidating. That's part of the case, the obvious-ness that this is a man in the wrong place.

It comes under "play silly games, win silly prizes," for me with a side helping of how toxic Twitter is in general.

the XTwitter I see is almost all books and gardens and history and archaeology and pets and food and pleasant chat. You don't have to see nasty stuff. There's the odd dodgy ad, but that's true everywhere online, and if you ignore them they eventually go away.

Could you please link us to X so that we might know what you are referring to.

I had a look on X expecting to find some unflattering pics like when they post photos of famous people before their glow up. Everybody has photos that they’d prefer the world wouldn’t see but these weren’t bad at all. We all know that you can’t control the internet and that deleting his own photos wasn’t going to erase his past.

I also think that pervert is a reference to what he did and wanted to continue doing rather than his trans status. It is reasonable to call him a pervert.

Also, the OP hasn’t actually produced any links to where people are calling him a pervert on here, or anywhere else, and until they do, I choose to not believe it.

I agree that his wife and parents should not be targeted (though I think it’s perfectly natural to speculate about his wife) but I find it hard to care about the hurt feelings of a man who openly said that he regards himself as female so would attend a sexual assault victim who had requested to be treated only by females.

He's the one who started all this and has shown that he cares nothing for the feelings of others - even though he was given permission to use the women's changing room, if he had any empathy at all with women he would have stopped using it when a woman made it clear to him that she found his presence there distressing.

He is interested only in himself and his own wishes and his desire to be validated by others as a woman, and I don’t see why everyone else should have to respect his wishes to have it all his own way.

It's not as if everyone doesn’t already know his birth name and sex. He just wanted to make a point by his birth name not being used in the documentation, and posters on X are responding by making the opposite point. The (in any sane universe) undeniable fact of him being male is the crux of the whole issue.

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