Charity rejects disabled child for mother's GC views

It is relevant in this thread as the child was told to identify people based on what they see.

Do we know the trans child is male?

Quasi-religious - yes.

Imagine a Jewish child wanted to attend a camp run by an inclusive Christian organisation. What would be the most inclusive approach?

1. To tell all the campers that there would be no Christian prayers, all food would be kosher and nobody mention Jesus or Christmas because there's a Jewish child at the camp.

Or

2. Tell the Jewish camper that they didn't have to join in Christian prayers, they would be provided with kosher food, and that people around them would be talking about Jesus and Christmas.

Of course, this depends on their definition of 'inclusive' being inclusion = tolerance of other views, rather than inclusion = imposition of our view.

I'd say it assumes the attendees may have certain beliefs. rather than speaking of the personal views of the organisation.

And since they say that the accommodation is allocated according to 'gender', will the boy who says he's a girl be sleeping in a girls' dormitory?

Start another thread if that's what you want to discuss.

Asking about pronouns is purely from the presumption that they might differ from your sex. Without the basis of gender ideology, the question would be pointless.

It assumes a belief.

expressing gender non conformity at preschool age

There is no 'right' way to be a sex or gender. I as a girl liked to play with toy cards and transformers toys, was I 'expressing' being a girl wrong?

We’re going to have to agree to disagree here. I do not think that addressing a person in the way they want to be is lying or denying reality.

I am talking about children who identify as their correct sex but might not be gender conforming in their appearance by traditional standards.

I dont think that works because we do all have pronouns. It is the mother's view that his pronouns should be obvious because he's stated his gender.

It would be more like a Christian camp asking attendees if they believe Jesus is the son of God and a parent asking if they're really asking a Christian child that question because they think that belief is fundamental for Christians. Which most do, there are some fringe denominations where it isnt as important.

I'm put in mind of the recent case in which a veterinary practice deregistered Allison Bailey because of her GC views and then tried to blame it on her being a difficult client. It appears to be something of a script. I suspect that the charity may have dealt with other potentially "difficult" or even "nightmare" parents far more sympathetically and without excluding their child.

If the child 'passes' that well, there'd be no risk of 'mis-gendering' and noone would need know about it.

We're not talking about a boy with long hair being mistaken for a girl. We're talking about (eg) a boy with long hair saying that he is in fact a girl.

The equivalent, I suppose, would be a form asking if your child is Protestant or Catholic. The underlyign assumption is that they are Christian, and there is no way to state that one isn't Christian.

If the child 'passes' that well, there'd be no risk of 'mis-gendering' and noone would need know about it.

But that child would still be being deceived about themselves, would be being lied to and promised a poisoned chalice.

That child would be being actively harmed.

That annoying tiger mum might be primarily concerned with safeguarding her own child, but she would be doing the other child a massive favour by anchoring the camp in reality.

There's no suggestion her child is going to be punished if he says a boy is a girl or vice versa. After all, children may misgender each other just because they think someone with long hair must be a girl, or indeed just because they have language problems. She's built a mountain out of the molehill of one question on the entry form.

as a girl who was a tomboy I was still very rarely mistaken for a boy and when I was I laughed and said I'm a girl because you know I was 8!!! And also because in the 70s girls having short hair, wearing trousers and climbing trees was very normal

if adults weren't so keen to force out dated gender stereotypes on children then maybe we wouldn't be where we are

She is stating that she doesn't agree with the quasi-religious beliefs that humans can change sex and that people can choose their sex. She doesn't want her child indoctrinated with this belief which she doesn't share.

Her belief is protected in law (Forstater). She has been discriminated against on the grounds of belief. Her child has been discriminated against on the grounds of his mother's belief.

And yes their absolutely are trans children, very rare pre puberty but we have (now adult) person in the family, as young as 3 was saying it and kids certainly hadn’t been indoctrinated into this ideology 23 years ago! Nothing “happened” until said person was 18 years old as should be the case other than switching to a gender neutral name at 16 but absolutely was expressing gender non conformity at preschool age

She isnt concerned. She is being confrontational. If she was concerned, she would ask what may happen if her child was to use the "wrong" pronouns for a child. She wouldn't approach it this way. She wants to vent her views. Her child's experience is secondary to her at this point.

What if they said this to a girl who is a tomboy? Yes we know you are a girl BUT because the kids think you look like a boy, you need to get used to them calling you "he". If you want them to call you she, grow your hair and wear a dress.

Asking how disabled children like to be referred to is not particularly outrageous and part of respecting their rights to self-expression, something that can be really hard for those children who need constant care

I do think seeing these kind of things on forms is a part of what is fuelling the social contagion though. It's another thing putting in people's heads that they or their children might have a gender identity which is different from their sex. Rates of gender dysphoria rose 50 fold between 2011-2021 according to the BMJ, and there are lots of causes but when questions become so widespread it makes people think that this is a common thing that might be an issue for them rather than a very rare mental health issue.

I was a bit dismayed when completing a form for my libraries summer reading challenge it asked if my child was male/female/non-binary/other. This was aimed at children under the age of 10 and it shouldn't be encouraged. I just rolled my eyes and ticked "male" but good on the mum here for calling out this nonsense.