What would you actually do if you saw a transperson in the wrong toilet/changing room for their sex? Thread 2

Perhaps they could put their energy into actually changing that situation?

So women should be used as human shields, should we?

Even though they’re bringing ‘the danger’ (male person with male strength, penis and now lack of respect for the law) into the ladies loos.

This. If I was on my own I would turn around and walk straight out and report it.

Much the same for me, maybe that good old social conditioning many of us have experienced since young plays a part?

I’d add though that in the case of a TW using female facilities it would confirm my thought that this was one of those narcissistic biological males who puts their feelings above those and the dignity of biological women and girls. If you’re so worried about your safety using the facilities that match your birth sex then do something about that - challenge those men and leave women out of it.

I'm not sure there's ever been a reported case of a transwoman being attacked in a men's toilet. Maybe they would get some funny looks. But I doubt most men really care.

I'd imagine it's probably quite dangerous for transwomen to use men's toilets...

I like the "oh sorry, thought this was the Ladies" and walk out which someone suggested (previous thread?). Makes the point without being confrontational.

Obviously helps if you're not desperate for the loo!

Depending on the vibe I got off him, I'd like to think I'd tell him to get out.

I'd be standing by the exit telling him this and I'd be ready to leave and report. He's breaking the law and I'd hope he'd be dealt with.

I would ignore.

However, recently I was inadvertently heading towards the men's loos at a London railway station and a bloke stopped me and told me I was going to the wrong loo. So he wasn't bothered about challenging me! It actually turned out that I could have got to either loo from the way I was going, but they are newly renovated and neither of us realised.

I’d walk out.

I would keep my head down and give them a wide berth.

If a man is willing to ignore the law and invade my personal space on that level, then I can’t trust them not to do it on other levels too.

Any male person in the UK who enters a female single sex provision now after the SC judgement is doing so with the knowledge that they have been excluded by law from that space, and I don't believe any of those entering could argue that they did not understand that their presence may cause female people distress.

Surely, the question to ask is 'why would any male person violate the law in this way?

You may question their motivation. However, I think that the law is clear now and any male person entering into a female single sex provision over the age of about 8 years old can be determined to not respect the law or the female people who are using and needing that space.

What other motivation do women need to understand other than that?

I have done before and I didn’t think it would ever have bothered me but it did.

They tell each other they pass, no one dares say anything in single sex spaces and in the UK it's rare to "gender" someone.
Nobody really says, "thank you Mrs/Miss", at a checkout, or, "Sorry Sir", if you jump into them for example, so they're all convinced they pass.
They don't, we all know they don't but they're all just some weird cheerleading club.

Gosh, this is such a silly argument.

The idea that because we've now told men who are clearly male and look like they were born male that they shouldn't be in women's toilets regardless of what they're wearing makes it easier for men to enter women's spaces by pretending they were born female?

No it bloody doesn't.

99% of men will never be able to convince a person with functioning eyes that they were born female.

It's far easier for a man to pretend that he was born male but feels like a woman inside than it is for him to pretend that he is a trans man.

Is there an element of many thinking (probably wrongly) that they "pass" so there won't be an issue? And if nobody says anything (which mostly people won't, for various reasons but mostly because we're British and don't do confrontation), that's then evidence that they do indeed pass?

Consent is not transferable, men are men, we can tell, they at the very least make us uncomfortable and they know it.
Only a particularly nasty sort of man would do it repeatedly.

But again, women are not a monolith. I personally would not feel uncomfortable with this as others have said before, though I acknowledge that others feel very differently.

I do also think saying "throw on a dress" is very minimising and it really only speaks to the stereotypical notion of what a trans person - specifically a trans woman - is like. I know a trans man who is nearby 6 ft bearded and built. Its unlikely you'd be able to tell so it would not be appropriate for them to use the ladies and they would probably be called out - why should they have to explain their medical history to strangers? And at that rate what is stopping any other man coming in to the ladies and saying they're a trans man? Similarly there are trans women who "pass" very well and who also probably feel out of place in a men's toilet. This is where the argument falls apart for me because it only matters when it's someone who is 'obviously' transgender.

Ultimately if someone is acting inappropriately or being creepy etc then they need to be held to account for that. But simply being transgender is not automatically creepy or inappropriate. That's your perception of their motivation and not necessarily the reality.

Thanks. I used to agree but I realised actually I was uncomfortable and that's valid. Many women are okay although some don't mind. It's the more marginal case.

I also realised that unless you know them personally there's no way to tell if someone is genuinely trans (i.e. has a gender identity) from a man with other sexual motivations (which includes being aroused by dressing as a women, acting as a woman, being aroused by invading women's boundaries and having the opportunity to rape women or girls).

Even those genuinely trans (i.e. they present as woman all the time not to enter women's spaces) can and do pose risks to women in womens spaces and have raped and sexually assaulted them. Most retain penises.

As well as there are often third gender neutral loos available but transwomen still refuse to use them. Even though they are aware they present male and are scaring women.

Just because they don't want to, doesn't mean they can't.

Why is what they want more important than everyone else's rights or safety?

I don't care what they want. Their gender identity isn't relevant to other people.

That wasn't what was asked in the OP though was it.

There are lots of reasons why trans women may not want to do it in the mens. Just as plenty of trans men may not want to do it in the ladies. And why lots of trans people may prefer a separate neutral bathroom. Is it really that difficult a mental stretch even if you don't personally agree with their rationale?

They don't give a shit about women feeling uncomfortable, do they?

Some of them positively relish it.

I’d say nothing and leave - and I’m tall and built. Confrontation is not a good idea.