Horrifying testimonies seek to lift shroud of silence around ritual sex abuse claims

It is horrifying and it seems there is no real will to do anything about it. Those poor children.

Yes, they do it and reverse the blame.

TRIGGER
About 15 years ago in The Times I read about an Imam in an Arab country who had been raping his 4 year old daughter. He blamed her for his lust so he also punished her. This included burning her with cigarette butts. The case elicited comments ( not U.K.) that beautiful baby/little girls should be put in burkas.

I was trying to Google the case using some key words but could not find it. But so many others came up of Imams and little girls in mosques, and a dreadful case of a Shia Muslim in Singapore who routinely raped 5 of his many daughters from his multiple marriages having persuaded their mothers that the Quran wanted him to do this.

“I then came across evidence that scientists examining the UK Biobank had found that levels of incest (father-daughter, siblings etc) were significantly higher in the British Pakistani community than the wider population. This was a disturbing finding, possibly indicating abuse of a shocking kind. But the paper was never published”

Thats the relevant bit in the article.

Yes not surprising at all, I think what's common in all these is the use of shame. One of the studies posted here on Israel pointed to people hiding it to save the family and the child the shame of it becoming public knowledge. The excuse is always about saving the family and the child from stigmatisation and worries that they may not be able to find a spouse later. It’s an insane take.

The article specifically talks about children born of incest as in the father is a brother or father. Please read it again, you may have missed it.

But cousin marriage, though harmful to the health of the offspring, is a long way from ritual sexual abuse.

This study of incest in Punjab Pakistan makes the case that incest is more likely in a patriarchal setting. Within the study a comparison is made between households where men rule over all the decisions and those where women do.

www.humapub.com/admin/alljournals/gpsrr/papers/x8tohK1HHo.pdf

The point made in the article was that the figures are notably higher than the general population. Its noteworthy because we have evidence and nothing is done with it, leaving women and girls to be abused because it’s difficult for authorities to confront abuse within closed communities. Just like the issue with ultra orthodox Jewish communities, it’s easier to just leave it alone.

I’m not sure we need to know about incest rates across the world to make a judgement about whether there is a problem in the UK. We can’t fix the world but we can try to fix the UK. We can’t say “not here thank you very fucking much”.

Again insular communities where women and children are made to feel they have to hide abuse from the authorities on the behalf of their abusers.

https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/silence-on-cousin-marriage-is-the-unspeakable-face-of-liberalism-870z5rpmf

User, do you have a link to the Syed article?

Syed is half Pakistani himself. Were they going to accuse anyone of racism who mentions this???

“But I quickly discovered that researchers wouldn’t return emails or calls. When I got through to one geneticist, he said: “I can’t go there.” It was like hitting a succession of ever-higher brick walls. I then came across evidence that scientists examining the UK Biobank had found that levels of incest (father-daughter, siblings etc) were significantly higher in the British Pakistani community than the wider population. This was a disturbing finding, possibly indicating abuse of a shocking kind. But the paper was never published, disappearing into what I can only describe as an Orwellian memory hole. When I approached the researchers, they were not prepared to talk on the record. One said that he feared he might not be able to bring up his children if he whispered the truth and lost his job as a result. It was like something out of Kafka.”

Thats a quote from the Matthew Syed article I mentioned earlier.

Of course it happens across communities because human beings are shocking but clearly a specific problem was identified and then ignored. Because the cost is bourne by children and women so who cares.

I think it would not be just ethnic minorities.

it is awful to think this is really happening so much.

Do you think it does happen more in ethnic minorities in the U.K. than with the general population?

Incest and abuse of under age girls is not restricted to any class or ethnic minority group. It occurs across all groups, it is also organised by groups of mainly, but not exclusively, men from all walks of life. While ever it is possible to view abuse as being something that happens "over there " done by "them " then the rest of us are complicit, imo

The ones that came to light due to DNA data. The information is right there.

There was a report about a woman who’s father had fathered 3 of her children and she was only able to tell her husband when she was on her deathbed. I don’t know what kind of shame and threats she was living under most of her life to have hidden his crimes. Her husband did entirely the right thing and immediately reported it to the police. She would have been raped well into adulthood by her own father. Who else are we ignoring? It’s horrifying to me this happens here in the UK and we sit on it. As an ethnic minority myself I see it as throwing minority women and girls under the bus so that no-one feels awkward.

I agree but would anyone know if the girl does not tell anyone?

Or do you mean arrest those perpetrators who have come to light through these bio-banks?

As a separate point, a lot of inadvertent sibling/father/uncle incest sex/ dna matches may come about from sperm donations in the U.K. in the 1980s. These were done with no proper safeguards. The U.K., especially the London area, is small enough for this to easily lead to unfortunate connections.

Thank you @AliasGrace47

Thats interesting, it’s basically the same sort of thing we saw in the church and I think would be said in my own minority religious group. The excuse of not stigmatising the victim so sweep it under the carpet. All the shame felt by the victim and not the perpetrators.

Crimes against women and children are often ignored within closed communities and when it is brought to light often there is a reluctance to deal with it. In that situation it leaves children and women even more vulnerable because they know nothing will be done and no doubt financial dependence plays a part.

It’s often very difficult for anyone in a closed community to really talk about/report this. Eviction from your community, shunning, accusations of betrayal and disloyalty are probably inevitable. You are probably brainwashed into thinking that by raising your head above the parapet you are the one bringing shame on your community and exposing your religion to criticism, not the abusers. Pelicot was absolutely right, shame must be transferred back to the abusers.

I am really worried about the reports of children born of incest in bradford because it’s happening here, we could deal with it if someone actually decided to. There is clear evidence of girls and women being abused in genetic data we have collected and no-ones going to do shit about it because they don’t want to face accusations of prejudice. In a decent society this would have been flagged and women and girls contacted and offered support and prosecution for their abusers (fathers and brothers).

We really need to drop the hesitation around race and religion when we are dealing with crimes against girls and women, people forget that minority women and children are just as likely to be victims as people outside their demographics. Turning a blind eye because a victim is Muslim or Jewish or whatever is not ok. Either you stand with girls and women or you don’t. Being selective to avoid accusations of discrimination is just cowardice.