Anne health Susie Greens new clinic

I find it interesting that, as a daughter of parents that were born in the 1920s / 1930s, I was brought up to understand I could be anything I wanted to be - and that being female should not be a barrier to anything. No pressure to conform to gender stereotypes, in fact we were all (several daughters) encouraged to be independent and gender non conforming.

Once a person is old enough to experience sexual desire then of course they can know they are gay. That doesn't happen at 7 years old though. As legal childhood doesn't end until age 18 and pretty much all humans go through puberty and start feeling sexual desires at younger than that, then obviously every gay adult was once a gay child. But pre-puberty they are all just children. There's no such thing as a gay 5 year old. Any 5 year old behaviour labelled as "gay" is basically someone either being sexist about gendered behaviour or worryingly sexualising of a child's innocent actions.

But that is a ridiculous and strawman comparison. A trans child can only exist by first lying to a child, bringing them up in a sexist way, telling them that boys like football and engines and dark clothing and getting muddy, and girls like unicorns and ponies and pastel colours and creative arts and pretty decorations, and then making sure they know that if what they like doesn't match the shape of their body then it's the shape of their body that is wrong. Creating this conviction in a child does not happen naturally or by accident. Making it happen is child abuse. It's an oversimplification to say that trans children don't exist. They don't exist until a child who should have been brought up free to be themselves, free from sexism, is forced into it. They weren't born trans, they were pushed into trans because their parents prefer to mould their child to a stereotype in one direction of the pendulum swing or the other. Don't dare pretend that sexism isn't out there. Every day on this and other parenting sites, pregnant women are posting their ultrasound results and getting excited as they find out whether to paint the nursery pink or blue, whether to buy a buggy and car seat travel system in sparkly rainbow style or rugged all-terrain camouflage. It's all-pervasive.

And yet here you are, telling us that trans kids are trans kids.

Yet still not explaining how a small child would know they are ‘trans’.

Who is observing these kids and determining they are trans?

Dysphoria will have a starting point and being told you are wrong and in the wrong body because you like a colour, a toy, a length of hair is not going to help you appreciate that you are a healthy individual with your own characteristics.
It's fine to be gay, to be tall/short, love/hate dolls or trains or whatever.
These children are precious little people being messed about with to suit those who want Dysphoria to be called gender.

The lack of record keeping and follow up means that there are no statistics.

Children were let down appallingly.

Detransitioners = a v small proportion of people who transition.

How do you know? The lack of stats is in large part due to the Tavistock etc not doing any long range follow ups. There's even less incentive for long range studies in the privatised American system.

Now I know you pay close attention to the trans community, because you're always telling us to listen to them. You know how detransitioners are viewed in that world, how they're talked about, how they're shunned. It's quite an eye opener when you've been told that trans spaces are totally inclusive and supportive.

I suggest that you need detransitioners to be insignificant in numbers, because you regard them as morally insignificant.

Detransitioners = a v small proportion of people who transition. Therefore (that’s why…) no one actually ever uses statistics when they cite detransitioners as a reason to deny care to the majority of trans people who will not detransition.

Your second point is quite eye opening. The failure of the NHS to recognise the capacity of women to decide if and then they want to be capable of becoming pregnant is atrociously sexist that has no role in a public health system. That you think it is reasonable should not surprise me.

As predicted you can’t explain gender identity in a way that doesn’t rely on sexist tropes.

An interesting contribution. Thank you

I've been trying to find the collection of stereotypes which used to be used to assess whether a child was trans on sites like the NHS. They've all been deleted as far as I can see in favour of vague waffle about having feelings about gender.

Being trans now seems to be a vague feeling that someone wants to be a different 'gender', while what this actually means is undefined. And yet we're supposed to accept that even young children can experience this mismatch between their 'gender' and their sex and know that this means they are 'trans', even though there is no definition or even description of what that means.

Meanwhile mature intelligent adults who ask what this means are told that we're bigots for not accepting that these small children can understand that they have an opposite sex 'gender' and that they need to be medicated asap as a result.

None of it makes any sense at all.

Excuse me? As in, what do you mean?

It's not a "gotcha". It's the nub of the whole matter.

What exactly is "being trans"? If "woman" is not "adult human female", and not a collection of feminine stereotypes, then what is it? What do females, and males who feel they are women, actually have in common that justifies using the same word for both? How can a man "know he is a woman"? What does he mean by it?

In essence, these are all the same question. And it's never answered. That's why you keep seeing it and can complain that it's "unoriginal". It doesn't need to be original. It needs to be answered, if the idea of "really" being trans is to have any credibility at all.

And of course we also know that some boys who desperately want to be girls grow up to be gay.

Rupert Everett for example.

Rupert Everett warns against hormone therapy for children who question gender | Rupert Everett | The Guardian

“I really wanted to be a girl. Thank God the world of now wasn’t then, because I’d be on hormones and I’d be a woman. After I was 15 I never wanted to be a woman again.”

(Obviously he wouldn't have actually been a woman.)

But he's not alone. There is a strong correlation between little boys who want to be girls and boys who grow up to be gay.

Don't you think it's better for those little boys to be allowed to grow up to be gay men rather than medicate them for a non-illness which will leave them sterile and with impaired sexual function? That sounds a bit homophobic to me.

It wasn’t a ‘gotcha’ question. It was a simple question to understand where you are coming from. To find some common terms of reference.

You were asked to explain how a child can know they are trans and you took the time to write out a couple of paragraphs of obfuscation (and have made several other longish posts). Wouldn’t it advance the cause you are obviously so passionate about if you could just answer the question asked? Don’t you want people to engage with your posts and try to understand what you are saying?

As I said, this isn’t the usual response for someone trying to import some knowledge.

So far as we can tell that group is a very small minority of people who had experienced persistent gender dysphoria as children.

That’s why for all your so called concern about detransitioners, you don’t have any actual stats on detransitioners.

can you explain how this statement follows from your previous sentence about gender dysphoria? I can’t see the ‘that’s why’ link you are making at all.

I’m glad you acknowledge that the detransitioners exist - those who were wrongly told or who wrongly thought they were ‘trans’.

I agree that medical interventions should only be given to those who can consent. Currently, for this type of decision, affecting fertility and future health, the NHS places the age at which consent should be accepted at about 30. I think that sounds reasonable.

There, we’ve found some common ground - I didn’t expect that so soon.

I’m not sure what is difficult to understand about people having lives.

Sometimes you have time to engage with bigots and sometimes - the majority of time in fact - you don’t. Sorry to disappoint you but spending a bank holiday Sunday and Monday with my son and wife were more important than responding to whatever oh so original gotcha question you think I’ve evaded.

‘Trans’ children are those who claim they feel like the opposite sex. As a part of my dissertation, I researched this assertion. Multiple anecdotal accounts, written by men who identify as trans. Almost without fault, the men who thought they should be women were ‘effeminate’ men, who liked playing with typically ‘girly’ stuff. They liked pink. They were emotional. They were ‘soft’. But most tellingly, they had parents (mainly fathers) who rejected their lack of masculinity and either rejected them emotionally and/or physically abused them. Often both. It was such a strong theme as to be a significant factor in their opinions that they should’ve been women. Remember, these accounts were researched and written by those who subscribe to the notion that one can ‘become’ the opposite sex. ‘Trans’ children exist, inasmuch as children, who have very fluid ideas of their own identity (which is NOT psychologically set in stone until much later in life) - however adults, who DO have much more rigid ideas of identity, tend to impose their own belief systems on these children, who then absorb these ideas as their own. In the same way that catholic guilt is a learned set of beliefs. As is racism. Or Conservatism. Or Communism. ‘Trans’ children only exist because adults have, ironically, given kids a rigid label that allows no fluidity or freedom of expression.

Yet here you are 🤷‍♀️.

It’s fine to just admit that you haven’t got an answer though.

Go sealion someone else.

So far as we can tell that group is a very small minority of people who had experienced persistent gender dysphoria as children. That’s why for all your so called concern about detransitioners, you don’t have any actual stats on detransitioners.

But of course you are right that severe and irreversible medical interventions should only be offered to those with the capacity to consent. That’s why I personally don’t think cross sex hormones should be offered to kids before they are 16, and puberty blockers should be used for severe and persistent cases of dysphoria.

Another basic question, while I wait for an answer to the first.

What does 'transphobic' mean?

There's no such thing as a 'trans child'. Thankfully both the NHS and the DofE agree, and caution against using that loaded and inaccurate phrase.

Is the concept of having a real life that takes priority over a transphobic message board really that alien to you?