Who‘s coming to FiLIA?

I don’t know if any of you know cleanbirdcity from X? She’s a young Irish lesbian fighting back against gender nonsense. She sent a really uplifting set of messages about her experiences of FiLiA. She spoke about the different talks she went to, surrogacy and MVAWG and it is really lovely to read. That gives me a lot of hope and a good feeling. The American women who are causing such division aren’t young, they are mid to late twenties but this is an early 20’s lesbian explaining what FiLiA meant to her. That’s got to give us a bit of hope.

Thank- you, whatwouldafeministdo. Having been in protracted, inflamed situations before, what I've learnt is that everyone sees things differently and the order in which people encounter situations/have conversations etc plays a big part in the internal, then external, narratives that emerges.

And yes to the Mexican wave of getting phones out to film. All the sharing of footage is a gross violation of privacy and seems to have been done for clicks and outrage rather than any more noble motives.

The reason people record video is that they've learned that if they don't often people more powerful than them claim that things didn't happen, it was just in their head, they're hysterical etc. This is especially important IMO if you're a working class woman - it's easy to be silenced if you don't have the money or time to go to court and people know that.

Do we really need to state that having no evidence often goes badly for poorer women - grooming gang victims, anyone?

That doesn't excuse sharing it without other women-in-the-video's consent but it is a powerful reason to take a video in the first place, especially when others are also filming. Which I can sympathise with - once someone is filming you've lost the 'not being filmed' position irrevocably. It's likely that as soon as one person whips out a phone then there will be at least 5 or 6 others doing so too.

I've heard at least 5 versions of what happened with the Jewish woman at the disco. What's interesting is the way people relay their opinion. Some are aggressive, others are more obviously neutral. I'm more likely to believe the neutral ones and those who don't declare with absolute moral certainty exactly what happened and what everyone's motivation was (including mine when simply asking questions, implying I'm not in good faith) and absolutely no nuance or room for the slightest uncertainty.

E.g. in a positive sense Shinyred describes what she saw but is clear that it's her interpretation that the Jewish woman getting the yellow ribbon out was in response to the flag wearing / pro-Palestine chanters. And that this interpretation may be wrong. That makes it more likely I'll believe her.

Because other people are declaring with absolute certainty things that are later proven as untrue and that tends to make me slightly wary of what they say and what their motivations are - particularly if they're generally quite rude to anyone who has a different opinion and seems to think everyone else should just accept their version no questions asked.

In terms of what happened I don't really care at this point, time to move on, except for hoping the Jewish women who were there are ok and generally feeling more resolved to speak up about antisemitism and pay attention to it as someone not Jewish myself. I hadn't seen a lot of the more extreme and virulent antisemitism that Jews in this country are exposed to until this week, so it's been a wake up call.

This was the impression I got, and am getting, not necessarily just at filia but in general. Must all feminism be socialist? I’m politically naive I know.

That is just hilarious, so on point. I'd love to buy some tunnocks for whoever did it - they're very clever.

Yes, I think you're right.

There was a general no filming without permission rule for the entirety of the conference.

Sorry, another one from me but it's just popped into my head.

I haven't seen mention of Sunday afternoon when elderly Jewish woman say in the main foyer playing her guitar and singing in Hebrew. no-one batted an eyelid.

Previous discos have been nothing like this one. They're usually just a lot of fun.

I don't think there was a no photo rule at the disco or before Sunday.

All the people posting and sharing footage for clicks and outrage don't seem to have even thought about the women filmed and their consent. Really vile behaviour.

Every time I’ve been to FILIA I’ve never been to the disco because I’m peopled out by that point. Sounds like it’s been the right decision.

Yes.

There was lots of unacceptable behaviour. The most generous interpretation is that the flag and ribbon wavers were standing up for what they believe in. Inflamed by women trying to match the flags and so on.

Neither the time nor place.

Yup, that couple are quite exhibitionist
in an all female space
that theoretically had a no photography rule

There was an elderly Jewish woman on stage in her underwear?

I agree that the majority at Filia are just normal run of the mill types but I do think the socialist agenda has become more and more prevalent both from the message given and the choice of speakers.

The evils of capitalism came up in my than one of my sessions including the opening session on the Friday. I can't remember who the speaker was but she had a PowerPoint slide that showed the fundamental things that we should all be fighting. Capitalism was on the there along with the Patriarchy, VAWG and a forth item I can't remember.

Whether the elderly Jewish woman was wearing it or waving it - so fucking what it does not in any way excuse or justify the behaviour of the young anti semitic Palestinain flag wavers.

Are you really trying the old Look what she made me do trope here on a Feminist Board?

Yellow ribbons are a well known symbol for hostage release/bringing people home and have been for eons they are not and never have been a symbol for anything else.

Yellow ribbons predate the state of Israel

I was there and the Jewish woman was waving a yellow ribbon. She appeared to get it out of her bag in retaliation to the Palestinian flags (she may have intended to get it out anyway, but that was my observation). I don't think anyone should post any footage because the elderly Jewish woman was wearing just a bra and pants at the time (unless they have her consent of course).

The footage accurately (because it’s footage not recollection) shows the Jewish woman wearing a yellow ribbon not waving it. It also shows the young women surrounding her with the flag (not wrapping her in it) and a very aggressive woman in pink shouting “free free Palestine” just next to her whilst snapping her keffiyeh with several other women doing the same. The young women (mid to late 20’s) have written in their statement that it was one of them that went rushing to the stage in “solidarity” with the Keffiyehs wavers. They have also been telling everyone who will listen that although FiLiA subsidised their travel, accommodation and gave them their platform, it was their agenda to disrupt the event, kick out the zionists and ensure they wouldn’t be any there next year. On top of this they have made two death threats to English Feminists that I have seen in the last 24 hours. I won’t post them here, as you say there is so much antisemitic filth floating around there’s no need for me to amplify it.

Aja is getting insulted by a few numpties.
She does not care.

It has to be said that the Downfall spoof picks up the whole 'drama' really well.

Most of the weekend was fab and funny.
Things will calm down.

I think those that weren't there, and getting their impressions mostly from social media/MN, don't quite understand the range, variety and mostly the ordinariness of the majority of women attending.

I agree. All the focus has been on maybe 20 or so of the 2,500 women who attended. I'm not saying that the discussions about those women shouldn't happen, but there was so much more to it than that.

I wonder if those of us who are not socialists but would also like to consider themselves part of the feminist movement are causing a similar classical liberal dilemma.

Not in my mind. And not for FiLIA.

I think those that weren't there, and getting their impressions mostly from social media/MN, don't quite understand the range, variety and mostly the ordinariness of the majority of women attending.

So does that mean Filia officially a Soc Fem feminist meeting?

I hadn't realised that.

Aja is getting hideously attacked on X by the socfems and head girls for being black and standing up to antisemitism.

In the last week I've seen some of the most disgusting behaviour from women in years, possibly ever.

I think we're all agreed that there was some room for improvement/lots for the FiLiA organisers to think about for the future. It's so easy to stand at the side criticising, deriding and trying to bring something down.

Whatwouldafeministdo yes, you are misrepresenting me, as you're fully aware. My point was that antisemitism is everywhere - you don' t need to go leafing through an obscure booklet to find it, and it's the 'everywhere' antisemitism that Jewish people are facing that needs to be called out and challenged.

And it is not true that anyone wrapped a Palestinian flag around the elderly Jewish woman. The young women holding the flag were trying to stand in front of her and the yellow ribbon that she was waving.