Why are so many GC women pro-Israel?

This article mentions all the leftists who celebrated October 7th.
https://fathomjournal.org/progressives-and-the-hamas-pogrom-an-a-z-guide/

Honestly I'm not really sure what you are getting at here? It's clear Israelis are already morally conflicted.

@TempestTost
Spiritually, killing someone might torment you. There are many different value sets in the world, very different moral boundaries. Douglas Murray talks of meeting one of the perpetrators of 7/10, an ordinary looking young man who had done terrible things but evinced no sign of regret or angst.
A 'western liberal' (bearing in mind that liberals have boundaries to their liberality hence the fight back against gender woo and it's repercussions) mindset may not superimpose comfortably everywhere.
The least we can do is form consensus in our own societies of our boundaries, (not celebrating psychopaths as freedom fighters is one of mine). Having read a bit further down thread I also note, pouring your own piss on yourself as per TRAs or smearing faeces on memorial books are things I associate with toddlers or mentally unwell adults.
What I appreciate about fwr (apart from the wit & the bluestocking) is the sensible dissection of ideas. Yes there are occasional moments of barracking but generally it feels like the 'grown-ups' are in charge.😶 As I started that bracketed list I heard Monty python asking what feminism ever did for us....closely followed by Michael Palin ....the chief weapons of fwr are sanity and reasoned debate.....and humour....and (insert name of well informed poster here).....
I'm primarily a STEM bod, identify variables and discern their effect....is it possible to do that to humanity in whole or in part?

Brighton 7 October memorial to relocate after council public works announcement - Jewish News https://share.google/biauOcYqlzWAb78VK

Good old tolerant Brighton -I would have expected nothing less.
The 7 October memorial in Palmeira Square was set up a month after the massacre in which 1,200 people were murdered – including 18 UK citizens. Since then, the memorial site has featured a nightly service and delivered more than 550 dedications. Visitors to the site have included Chief Rabbi Mirvis, Board of Deputies President Phil Rosenberg, and CO-CEOs of Progressive Judaism Rabbis Charley Baginsky and Josh Levy.The memorial has been vandalised more than 50 times, including being completely destroyed on five occasions – it has been lovingly rebuilt each time. Incidents include the memorial book being slashed as well as faeces smeared across it. Antisemitic leaflets have also been left in the vicinity, and mourners have at times been aggressively harassed. Four arrests have been made associated with crimes committed there

The BBC six o'clock news a couple of months ago, maybe? It was not overtly stated that this was the case, but it was more than apparent from what she said.

The BBC would never report in an obvious and open way on such abuses amongst the Palestinian population, in the same way it fails to mention Hamas's commandeering of aid or the execution of civilians for non compliance.

Thanks for this, Eliza. Beyond a ceasefire and return of the remaining hostages, what suggestions are there for ways of obtaining a lasting peace?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/mar/29/why-feminists-less-religious-survey

Most UK feminists are atheists or have no religion, survey finds.

Edit: no description of methodology in the article though.

https://www.adl.org/resources/article/anti-israel-protesters-celebrate-one-year-anniversary-hamass-october-7-attacks

Global celebrations on the anniversary of October the 7th.

If you think it's only about a male creator, you haven't heard of Wicca (belief in a God and Goddess as equal).

And one can be a spiritualist and believe in mother nature or a life force that is not male or female. Saying feminists shouldn't be religious is narrow-minded, shallow, ignorant and uneducated. I would expect better from someone that declares themselves a feminist. The overwhelming majority of feminists I know are either religious or have a spiritual belief/beliefs of some kind. It's very rare to find an atheist feminist.

If Israel really wanted to commit genocide then they are not making a very good job of it.

And yet 85% of the dead are civilians 🙄

If Hamas cared about its own people then it would not embed itself amongst civilians;

They're fucking TERRORISTS! Can they be relied on to behave in a fair manner? No. But nor can Israel sacrifice so many civilian lives to get to them.

There is NO excuse for shooting on aid queues.

None.

Nor for incidences such as Red Crescent, which Israel denied even happened until it turned out one of the dead had been recording it!

And yet we knew it happened. The news was out and the world was appalled.

The people are not the UN.

I have never, ever heard a single person glorify the attack and anyone who does so it a POS.

My point is, I will not be told that I don't care about BOTH.

Eliza, exactly. All the anti Semitic rhetoric ignores all the nuances of this, ofc.

There is a wide range of views about the current Israeli Government and its policy re Gaza and the West Bank among the Jewish diaspora both in Europe and the US (and in Israel itself of course, see the huge demonstrations these last weeks concerned to have a cease fire and get the hostages back.)

If you read the British Jewish News and the Jewish Chronicle they accept that the Jewish Community in Britain is not united re the current policies of the Israeli Government. Many Jewish Academics and especially Rabbis and Cantors in the US and Britain, have expressed their concern about Netanyahu's policies to keep bombing the Palestinians or deport them.

The Rabbis ( of all persuasions Orthodox to Progressive, are deeply upset that the way the Israeli Government is acting in Gaza and the West Bank does not tally at all with Jewish values that believe all people should be considered and have worth. ( Indeed the Palestinians are themselves a semitic people like the Jews and no doubt (ironically) many even may be descendants of the Jewish peoples who were not part of the diaspora or taken to Babylon.)

ThatCyanCat, since the link didn't work, I've posted the full article here.

As the sun begins to sink over the Mediterranean, groups of Israelis gather each evening on hilltops close to the Gaza border to cheer, whoop and whistle as bombs rain down on people in a hellish warzone a few miles away.

Old sofas, garden chairs, battered car seats and upturned crates provide seating for the spectators. On one hilltop, a swing has been attached to the branches of a pine tree, allowing its occupant to sway gently in the breeze. Some bring bottles of beer or soft drinks and snacks.

On Saturday, a group of men huddle around a shisha pipe. Nearly all hold up smartphones to record the explosions or to pose grinning, perhaps with thumbs up, for selfies against a backdrop of black smoke.

Despite reports that millions of Israelis are living in terror of Hamas rockets, they don't deter these hilltop war watchers whose proximity to Gaza puts them within range of the most rudimentary missiles. Some bring their children.

In the border town of Sderot, which has been struck by countless missiles from the Gaza Strip in recent years, one family gathers on a top-floor balcony, draped with an Israeli flag and banner of the army's legendary Golani Brigade. A house with a war view may even command a premium price these days.

The thud of shellfire, flash of an explosion and pall of smoke are greeted with exclamations of approval. "What a beauty," says one appreciative spectator.

Shimrit Peretz, 19, has come with her off-duty soldier boyfriend, Raz Sason, whose army-issue assault rifle is slung across his shoulders.

"We come to look at the bombing," Peretz says, adding that this is their fourth visit to the hilltop. They plan to stay several hours: "It's interesting." The pair have brought a backpack filled with bottles of water and bags of crisps.

Peretz says that she doesn't worry about the Palestinian civilians caught in the bombing; Sason disagrees. Despite his concern for the innocents caught in the assault, the young conscript soldier wishes he was with his comrades across the border in Gaza. "I'd like to be going in, to help my country and help the soldiers inside," he says.

Given the dramatic views, media crews are coming to the area to cover the fighting. On a nearby hilltop, an ugly scene develops as a group of Israeli men threaten a photographer, accusing him of being a "leftist". We are warned against asking for interviews, as another cheer goes up.

This isn't just an Israel problem though. It's a global issue.
Let's consider Islamists and the misery
and suffering they've brought across the
MENA area following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire which ended with
3 genocides, the Greeks Christians and
Armenians.
We have the Muslim Brotherhood, Boko
Haram, Isis, the Taliban, al-Qaeda, Al Shabaab, Jama'at Nusrat al Islam wal Muslimeen as well as Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthis. That's off the top of my
head.
The Druze, Yazidis and Christians have all suffered genocidal violence.
I heard a Yazidi woman say that 'they were the Jews but without the weapons.'
Palestine has been made into a symbol of the power of Islam and Allah and are incapable of making peace. It is an honour culture that willingly sacrifices it's children to protect its honour.
They deliberately attacked just as Saudi Arabia was making a deal with Israel to subvert any normalisation with Arab neighbours.
They could have released the hostages and the war would have ended.

Tha Arab countries are starting to realise the threat to them of these extremists. The UN has been abysmal. Russia is playing politics.

What is this 'you'? I have done no such thing. I am simply showing one example of Israeli Civilians (not politicians) cheering the bombing of Gaza. I am not equating it with the Palestinians' behaviour, that is much worse I agree.

This is the first time I have posted such a thing, you're welcome to check my history.

You have not noticed that the Holy Spirit is often shown as female in the Old Testament, as a woman of wisdom and wealth, as a mother. God appears as a woman in Jesus's parallels - the widow searching for coins, personified as a mother hen protecting the chicks. This God has no sex. The Hindu pantheon has many women who are powerful and the most powerful - described as being the ocean to a puddle in comparison to Brahm, Shiv and Vishnu together - is Kali (the origin of the Black Virgins of Europe btw).
Religions are often misogynistic, that doesn't mean God is - indeed, misogyny will be one of the ways in which humankind departs from Her will.

Link isn't working, but it doesn't matter. We know you are actively hunting out articles where Jews or Israeli politicians have said horrible things (this one, you say, from 11 years ago), usually to immediate opposition from other Jews or Israeli politicians, and trying to suggest that this is equivalent to frequent public scenes all over the world where Jews and Israel supporters cheer and celebrate Gazan deaths. The purpose is to present your opposition to Israel while claiming that you are being fair and "both sides"-ey. That both sides are equal, per capita, in their mob supporters celebrating death, when they quite patently aren't.

You are allowed to be anti Israel but you should be honest about it.

I'm sure they are aware of that (it's been going on for a while), but lying down and surrendering to repeat October 7s and intifadas until they are all dead isn't an option and I can't think of any other country where anyone would suggest otherwise.

What about this 2014 article?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing&ved=2ahUKEwijpJnO7aGPAxXzQUEAHWx0K3UQFnoECCIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0akQOjSoMxORwq2S5rkSdO

A v powerful post...the spiritual effect must be terrible...

But is there no choice but to destroy all the Palestinians? Including children?

There should be moves to make Europe & the US & Australia etc safe for Jews so they don't feel Israel is the only place they are safe. Realistically, it will be a long long time before Israel is truly the safest place to be Jewish, and I don't think extermination of the Palestinians will help that.

(Moreover, I believe that would be totally & horribly immoral, but this was about the outcome, not the morality)

I repeat, I have never seen a group of Jews or Israel supporters openly celebrating the deaths of Gazans. And I do not think hunting out a single talking head is equivalent to some of the group scenes I saw, unsolicited (they were out and about, they wanted to be seen) after and even during October 7.

If you must do the "but both sides" thing (and by trying to draw this false equivalence, you are making it very clear which side you are on - own it, please), then I think we need to look at which side has the most arseholes, the loudest arseholes, and the arseholes who are the most dangerous to oppose. In both the transgenderism issue and Israel/Gaza, the answer seems very clear to me.

It's also sad to read of the pre-17th century more positive Jewish-Muslim relations in the Ottoman empire. Why did everything have to go so wrong?

I mean spiritually. Even killing someone in self-defence impacts people, and if it's a hard scrabble sort of situation like in a war people often never recover properly.

That's also true I think of a people or nation. How do you reconcile yourself to having destroyed another people so your own could survive, even if the others were more at fault? How does that affect how you think about what it means to be a member of your group? Post WWII there were many people who felt their Jewish identity as being survivors of persecution by stronger people, sometimes that even takes on a religious perspective around the idea of suffering. But I wonder how that looks when that ethnic or religious identity is closely tied to overcoming adversity with military or violent action?

None of that is about what was the best moral and pragmatic action, it's about the human effects of those actions.

Maybe there is no choice so it's not worth thinking about, but I've seen enough people massively affected by military actions to think it is.