Why are so many GC women pro-Israel?

@Krakinou you are contributing to "tribal politics" you despise by making this thread! 😂

It's literally called "why are so many GC feminists pro Israel"?

I have a general sense that, while in the past it was common to be in broad agreement with one party or faction, it is no longer possible. Each has positions I agree with alongside others that horrify me.

Your arguing that the Jewish people are colonists of their own land and that antisemitism is logical.
Do you know why Egypt hasn't opened the raffa crossing or why Jordan deported all the Palestinians?
when you do think again about your statement that I've quoted.
Oh and no I dont agree with Israels current actions I just don't hold an entire religion responsible for the decisions of a handful of people who happened to be in power when the 7/10 atrocities happened especially when hamas could end this all by returning the hostages

That wasn't a thread of this feminist forum as far as I remember, or do you mean Mumsnet as a whole?

Fyi Jeremy Corbyn previously called Hamas and Hezbollah "friends" which is where the nickname Jezbollah comes from, Jez being short for Jeremy.

I don't know about Mumsnet as a whole but, for what it's worth, my impression is that rather a lot of the posters on this particular board are not right wing at all, but natural left or centre left voters who feel abandoned and let down by Labour, the Greens, the Lib Dems and the independence parties in Scotland and Wales, all of which have embraced gender identity without any proper consideration of its effects on women.

Labour is backtracking now, but at the time of the last election there was a lot of agonising here on the lines of "do I spoil my ballot paper, or do I hold my nose and vote for the perfidious party I supported for years but who now won't support my sex, or do I do the unthinkable and vote Tory?"

I think "Gaza MPs" may be a slightly different issue. Less to do with it being Gaza in particular and more that a UK MP's primary focus should be the constituency they are elected to serve.

There's also a fear of wolves in sheep's clothing IMO in both cases

I think any feminist would have a huge issue with the rapes and murders committed by hamas.
That doesn't mean they aren't also horrified at the suffering of the women and children in gaza. But for some reason any mention of oct 7th or disgust at hamas seems to be seen as pro israeli and anti Palestinian regardless of how horrified they also are at the suffering of Palestinian civilians too.
There seems to be a section of the Internet who correlate being anti hamas with being anti Palestinian women and children.

I think this is an interesting question and welcome you asking it. I cannot say that I have noticed the conflation of the two issues on MN but it is honestly the reason I left Xitter - far too many of the feminists I’d been following on there for years were suddenly posting awful propaganda for Israel.

But surely your feeling is based on reading, what - 10 to 20 usernames? Some online articles that the algorithm presents to you?

Have you actually thought objectively about whether 'so many GC women are pro-israel' is an accurate conclusion to draw, or are you happy to judge a large and diverse group of people in this way?

You're coy about how many "so many" is to you. What do you actually mean?

Do you mean "I've read 15 GC articles and I'm wondering if this is a significant overlap of beliefs?"

Sorry, I'm not having a go even though it sounds like it! I just can't stand vague statements that are presented to be agreed/ disagreed with. That's not how we discover truths about the world.

I don't see a correlation between being a GC feminist and being Islamophobic. GC feminists tend to be on the left, favour a two-state solution, and think Netanyahu is going about things the wrong way. They might think Islam harms women, but they don't hate Muslims.

I do see a correlation between being an enthusiast for gender ideology and being anti-semitic: in particular, failing to understand that Zionism is necessary to protect the Jews. They see Jews and 'cis' women as powerful and privileged alike, despite the history of abuse of both groups.

My perceptions could be way off. It might be interesting to devise a poll that would capture these alignments, if they exist.

GC articles about Gaza

Can you link these GC articles please.

My impression is that the failure of the ‘left’ (in quotes because what passes for the left isn’t left in any meaningful sense at all) to accept the basic rights of women to single sex spaces, & the very existence of biological sex, has unfortunately funnelled many gc women & men towards what I would describe as a broad pattern of quite extreme right wing views, including racism. I have seen this in my own social circle - a real change over the past few years in the views of women who have sharply moved to the right, as the ‘left’ abandoned them.

I also think this is one of the reasons why transgender ideology has been so strongly promoted by existing power structures. It distracts the ‘left’, & funnels centrists to the right.

Distract, divide, delegitimise. Old playbook.

My impression is many woman on the forum do not support religions which place the males in the dominant position. This means most religions.

I do not agree with people (mainly politicians or those in power) using race, expansion or religion as an excuse to attack/invade another country. One person on another thread claimed there are 101 conflicts currently active in the world. Some of these are taking places between people who share the same religion, but belong to different factions.

Religion and power are, too often, a dangerous combination.

There's a link in the sense of both GC and pro-Israel supporters standing for two sections of society that have experienced thousands of years of being persecuted.

The link is in the urge to protect the very flimsy existing boundaries that both have fought hard to create.

You can be feminist and anti-Hezbollah and not pro-Israel’s actions, or pro-Israel at all.

I think there’s a lot of anti-Muslim feeling from some feminists because support for a lot of Muslim cultural norms in the UK is not seen as being in the interests of women as a sex class. And much of the Gaza supporting rhetoric is by the politicians and activists who have most increased the access to power of fairly fundamentalist Muslim activists and have not challenged the cultural norms for women. Whereas support for Israel is not seen as likely to increase orthodox Jewish influence on mainstream British culture.

So what hamas are just allowed to win until they do it again?

What's the end game here.

If you based on the numbers alone, were the allies wrong in world war two? Because many more germans died, than brits died in world war two did that make us wrong?

Based on this flawed, logic of too many people are being killed by Israel - applying the same logic to world war ii, the allies should have stopped.And just let germany continue because they were killing too many civilians.

It's completely flawed, and you know it.And now I don't get the impression you against sexual violence.I get the impression that most pro Palestine don't give a damn about what happened to the israeli women.

No one gets to start a war and then claim victim when they start losing it.

Edit - have seen no such correlation whatsoever.I don't even know where you got that from or where the premise came from.

Yes, exactly - things like “Queers for Palestine” is what I meant too. (I haven’t seen many “Palestinians for Queers” organisations, by contrast)

THIS!

Anyway, I’m not trying to make an argument about Palestine here.

But you're doing it anyway. Please don't think nobody sees it.