Why are so many GC women pro-Israel?

I consider myself a feminist. But I don't support all women, some women are twats.

Exactly! I entirely agree. And I wonder how these causes get bundled together, and to what extent social media/algorithms are responsible for the polarising splits, in terms of what they present to people with specific views.

Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. It’s exactly as a PP’s son says, they “bought their politics as a job lot” (great phrase!). I don’t understand why, though.

A possibly similar issue is assisted dying. I heard a lot of GC women express serious doubts about the assisted dying bill, whereas all the people I know who believe TWAW were strongly in favour. As I have mixed feelings on assisted dying, I found this polarisation quite difficult.

As an aside, I wonder to what extent algorithms presenting online content are to blame for creating these artificially “bundled” positions ( eg pro TWAW, pro Palestine, pro refugees, pro assisted dying vs GC, anti-Palestine, anti-refugees, anti-assisted dying)…?

I think, because people tend (not all, but most) to end up in one echo chamber or the other. The first split is probably left/right and after that you split into smaller echo chambers, but that's the first one.

I am traditionally a wooly liberal, since having to take a very strong stance on male entryism to female spaces I have found myself on 'the other side" quite a lot. So I see a lot more people arguing these other unrelated causes, whilst I am reading about the trans rights battles.

What I really don’t understand is - the reverse of the OP’s question - WHY are so many TRAs so vocal on these other causes, eg Gaza? I can’t see any real connection at all; in fact, the only points of connection I can see should suggest an anti-Palestine, probably anti-Islam stance….

The irony is they'd be thrown off a building in gaza.

Queers for Palestine ...etc

Great post 👏. My adult son says he despairs of his 30s peers and is terrified of the 20s cohort who ' bought their politics in a job lot'. Thus they automatically support the T.

But , when the blinkers come off , it's all too easy to replace those views with a different portfolio of beliefs. If the " Left " got this so wrong then what else don't they jack shit about? I speak as what would have been a bog standard social democrat in the 80s , 90s. Now classed as a raving Trotskyist no doubt.

Another adult son says it's futile to pretend that either gender ideology or Islamic fundamentalism are not problematic. Just makes us look stupid and is meat and drink to Reform. To the OPs question , well there's always been right wing feminists anyway. Going back to Emmeline Pankhurst and Marie Stopes.

I haven't seen it on here but absolutely this is a thing on twitter. I've unfollowed quite a few very longstanding GC women because their feed is now all about anti semitism (outrage at Israel). It's not that I no longer like them, it's just not a topic I want to use my twitter for.

It's because whilst faith, politics, dietary preferences, tastes in music, opinions on financial policies and everything else in the world varies, fundamentally it's a matter that concerns women and men's behaviour towards them - the nicest woman in the world and the most horrible one are both female and will have an opinion and experiences that may agree.

You could just as easily ask why so many women that drink coffee agree, why so many that are lefthanded agree or why so many who are wealthy enough to not be solely concerned with survival agree with women who would be grateful for clean water, are righthanded or are currently actively trying to avoid men with guns raping and murdering them - fundamentally, both know that they are female, the other sex is male, one cannot become the other - and males as a class pose a significant risk to females that doesn't change with the clothes they wear.

It's not about politics or Internet access. It's about the risk males pose to females that has been in existence since the first humans - and the way in which, despite any trappings of wealth, technology, communication, religion or claims of 'civilisation', men seek to invade, control and conquer women, their bodies and any place that has been set aside to be a male-free space in any way they can, just because they want to.

Israel is not committing genocide. The accusation is beyond ridiculous and should be treated with the contempt it deserves.

This is what I mean. I am involved in a lot of refugee aid projects. Many of my colleagues there are sensible, thoughtful people who understand nuanced arguments, but others are omnicause activists who see refugees, Gaza and trans rights as inextricably linked, and if you oppose one you oppose all. If I said I supported single sex spaces, they would immediately assume (despite years of refugee work) that I am a right wing bigot. This kind of framing by the other side does make it difficult to articulate any sensible critical positions that are in favour of some things and against others.

What I really don’t understand is - the reverse of the OP’s question - WHY are so many TRAs so vocal on these other causes, eg Gaza? I can’t see any real connection at all; in fact, the only points of connection I can see should suggest an anti-Palestine, probably anti-Islam stance….

I like what you say, and I tend to believe this too. However, I find myself conflicted about the fact that it is indeed very important (as the "GC" publicly vocal women have shown themselves) to speak out or else there's this feeling that you are the only one witnessing the naked emperor. So while I certainly don't tend to be vocal about the Palestine-Israel issue (although I can't deny what my eyes see), I have the same experience and feeling that @Krakinou has explained.

I, too, wonder why, on this particular issue, there seem to be a hegemonic positioning among British "terfs" (siding with Israel and even denying the genocidal aspect of its actions), that I simply don't see among other european "terfs" (and I am very familiar with european terfism).
So why is it? I think OP has posted a genuine and honest question, and I see no ill will in that.

I think this is a really important point from @Mermoose

As to why that correlation exists, I think it's that GCs have learned that you can't rely on organizations like Amnesty International and unfortunately the BBC often misrepresents things. If you're GC you're most likely clued into the fact that rights aren't actually a pie and sometimes ethical problems have no feel-good answer.

I think perhaps sometimes, when the other side seems to lack all nuance, that GC women who argue “it’s more complicated that” or “there are no easy answers” or “there are wrongs on both sides” end up coming across as a lot more pro-Israel than they originally intended to be.

I suspect that then leads to a kind of feedback loop in which they get pilloried for being allegedly “pro-genocide”, and they probably end up becoming more anti-Palestine than they started out, because of the sheer stupidness of some of the opposition arguments. I can see myself in this position and have to work actively to double check I’m not sometimes sliding into political views I don’t really support simply because of the omnicause nature and ridiculous arguments of some of the activists on the other side.

I'd say most palestinians do support hamas. They all want Jews annihilated too
Let's be honest. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how ancient and deep the hatred it is.

But still israel should just take down the defenses and let them win because they don't have the military capability to win the war they started. Of course they should

Between 1 in 6 and 1 in 10 Palestinians is a Hamas fighter. Given Palestinian soldiers are almost all men, you’d be hard pressed to find a family that isn’t Hamas.

it's an unfortunate side effect of the "omnicause".

If you have Men in dresses, Palestine and Welcome Refugees grouped on one side

You get women's sex based rights, support of Israel and anti refugee status on the other side.

I despise the polarising media boxes we are algorithmically shoved into.

I mean, I saw the footage of ordinary Palestinians cheering the October 7th terrorist atrocity so 🤷🏽‍♀️. It reminded me of the red hands attack, that wasn't Hamas either. Netanyahu is not Hamas, that is a shameful comparison. Would it make people happier if Israel took down its defences and let Palestine win the war it started?

Ok, I'll bite.
There are a few things that might make it seem this way:
The Jeremy Corbyn bunch that are both anti Semitic and anti women: some people who are GC have also seen how horrendous he is on Israel.
The educated Jewish women journalists who talk sense (Hadley Freeman, Nicole Lambert). Those who are educated Muslim GC women (Onjali Rauf for one) are pro human rights but that doesn't mean anti Israel.

And the horrendous stance on women's rights and gay rights by Hamas. This just makes the anti Israel demonstrators with blue hair look uninformed.

I don't see any of these people as pro Israeli government, just anti Hamas, though.

Something, something, ‘woke’, etc., …

You've picked one comment and extrapolated a trend.

The idea of sex being a spectrum, imagined, real or important, and any other issue being linked needs a more reliable source than you reading threads.

Similarly, being sceptical of british politicians priorities, and views of complex international conflicts isnt as simple as you appear to think it is.

But this is where feminism as a movement always shoots itself in the foot - being forced to take sides in other causes means that women refuse to work with each other on feminism. And justify this by claiming a view point is right wing or anti feminism.

From my understanding Hamas were elected only once and 50% of the population of Gaza were not born until after the election.

Therefore it is impossible to say whether if they allowed elections to continue they would still be in power. It’s obvious to us that they are an extreme political entity, however it maybe difficult for the people who have only lived under their rule to be able to be objective and feel safe to express opposition.

The people of Palestine, i.e. Gazans in this instance, cheered to see the bodies of murdered women on 7th Oct. Some ordinary Gazans took part in the rapes and murders, too.
I know that Gazans who do not back Hamas have to stay quiet or be killed. Some did dare to speak out earlier in the war - I hope that they were given refuge before Hamas murdered them.

But to say that everyone in Palestine supports what Hamas have done is over simplifying. That's like saying every Jew supports Netanyahu or every Irish person supported the atrocities carries out in "the troubles".

I was recently in earshot of a pro Palestinian rally in Manchester. I am generally horrified at the amount of destruction and killing and violence by Israeli military against the people of Gaza, but listening to that rally put me right off the political activism about this issue in uk.
Speaker was saying LGBTQ+ community were automatically allies so palestinian supporters should support them too. This surprised me because I thought surely there would be a range of opinions amongst gay & trans people , same as any other people. Surely some people in that community have links to Israel. Also why should someone who supports Palestine automatically want to support LGBTQ+ issues. It's completely separate.