Why are so many GC women pro-Israel?

I can’t even take them seriously anymore. Every time they cry ‘fascist’ all I can think of is Rik Mayall!

It's easy to spot the terrorist. He's the one with the biggest bomb.
Brendan Behan.

Yes. I've said it before. The modern Left has spent a long time now accusing all manner of reasonable and valid viewpoints of being Far Right, not even just centre right. And now it's amazed that people are wondering what's so terrible about being far right.

That's what scares me. As one on the traditional left, I'll never be 'right wing' by whatever was previously understood as the meaning of those words, much less today's 'right': full of barmy conspiracy theories, spray-on St George flags and bleating on about 'boat people'.

But I can well understand why people are looking at what's masquerading as the left today and thinking 'if that's what the left now stands for, what's so wrong with the right?'

Hence 1930s rhetoric comes full circle. I've never felt more betrayed or politically homeless than I do now.

Ed. to say I'm sick as fuck of the word 'align' and the moment I encounter it is the moment I stop reading. It's as lazy, uncritical and sheep-witted as they come.

Also, the modern Left would lose its nut if it realised that the creation of Israel was a left wing project. That's why kibbutzes exist.

Exactly this. There was a thread recently asking why so few of the people purity-spiralling over the Israel/Palestine conflict on a left = good, right = bad basis didn't give a crap about the unholy shitshow currently unfolding in South Sudan. Or, indeed, why Israel was being arbitrarily attached to the right and Palestine the left. Some of the Unions have found themselves in hot water over that as well. I'm assuming finding themselves accused of racism was a wholly new experience for my own union specifically, and they went very uncharacteristically quiet over the whole shebang.

I asked a colleague who is a frequent pro-Palestinian demonstrator what she thought to the Sudan crisis and the treatment of first nation Australians and the Saskatoon starlight tours in supposedly 'woke' Canada. Unsurprisingly, she had little insight into either. And given the comparative silence about issues like this as opposed to the current ME mess, I have to conclude that unless these horrendous global human rights abuses fit into some neat, if inaccurate left/right paradigm, people are not interested. It's all about the 'look at me, I'm a good person waving a flag for the right (as in correct) side'. I find it nauseating, TBH.

The Left is full of tribalistic forced teaming, where it can't understand or accept that people can agree on one topic and not another, and that's just one reason why it's losing support like crazy.

Perhaps the OP was just looking for a condemnathon.

I salute the many thoughtful and insightful posts that refuse to join in a game of simplistic bullshit, blame, and assumpton.

What are you thoughts, OP, on Iran? Turkey, and Russia's involvement? The US' involvement? The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt - do you agree with their stance on Palestine? What about the so-called Arab Winter, (or Spring) is/was that a good or a bad thing, in your book?

Are you supportive of the Lebanese coalition government, which includes representatives from across the Lebanese (admittedly fairly narrow) political spectrum?

This is a situation so complex and wide ranging, and encompassing so many geopolitical topics, so much history and contested history at that - the context seems almost ungraspable to me, and the more I learn about it the less I feel I know. Plus - who do we trust to report? We know much of what comes out of that region is propaganda, or distorted.

War is shit. War is awful. People suffer horribly, and mistruths and disinformation are everywhere. Both sides obfuscate and distort. I say both sides; there are many sides.

Knee jerk assumptions and black and white thinking help nobody.

I saw some supposed progressives from the UK jumping up to cheer the overthrowing of Bashar al Ashad, despite not a lot of evidence that life for Syrians - and particularly for women - would necessarily improve under an ex Al Quaeda leader.

Anyway. Feminists. Right wingers, eh? Do go on.

It's all propaganda.

Everything is a distortion and a distraction.

If you care so passionately about any of it, you have been brainwashed.

Me too.

As a feminist, I support a society where women have full rights rather than one that lives in the dark ages. As a democrat, I support a democracy rather than a society of thugs. If that makes me right wing, I really do not give a flying fuck. Threads like these are meant to shame and coerce women into leftwing tribalism.

Running a liitle short of time - but I agree with @SidewaysOtter and @SionnachRuadh Thank you both for expressing things so well.

Until Oct 7th I had much more sympathy for the Palestinians and actually I spent years not buying stuff from Israel. I'm afraid I was a bit lazy/omnicasue in some areas of life.

The middle east/Israel/Palestine is dreadfully complicated. But there is no doubt in my mind that the only place livable for me as a woman in that region would be Israel. I'm not saying its perfect but it is my far the most liberal country in ME.

Queers for Palestine is the worst joke of the decade, perhaps century.

The idea that this is a race issue with Isreal = white vs Palestine = brown is laughable. I knew many Palestinian Israelies where we used to live in London, and they were all super happy to be Israeli.

I am part of a large group/collective of feminsts & I would be in the minority. Most are more pro Palestine & some even pro Hamas. How does that work?

I think Hamas are despicable terrorists & misogynists (so often these go hand in hand) and while I feel dreadful for ANY civillian population caught up in war, the way Hamas use their own people as human shields etc is beyond reproach.

This issue is not something I am prepared to spend time on arguing about online. I simply do not have the time/space in my life for it, and I don't have the depth of knowledge to wade into it. All I see are people/statements/"facts" that are always in conflict. It is very difficult to ascertain "truths". I am sure most of us are in this same position, but while many will outsource their thinking, this isn't something I am prepared to do. So I remain mostly in the dark as are the vast majority of people - except very few will admit this. If I don't understand something I like to investigate & ask questions until I do understand it - this lead me to a quite deep understanding of the GC/trans/womens rights debate. I don't have the time to invest in Israel/Palestine but if I did I'm not convinced I would have any more clarity that I do currently.

If its true about the billions the Hamas leaders have taken for themselves, we need to have a serious rethink as to how aid is given to Palestine - we must not be giving aid that us syphoned off for the personal enrichment of these horrible men, or to fund their terror chests.

I'm probaly an Islamaphobe - I studied history of Islam at university and am under no doubt that it is a colonising religion. Its a dreadful religion for women/girls & I do not support it in any way (beyond individuals rights to their religion). If you compare say Malaysia in the 80's/90's and Malaysia now, things have got increasingly regressive as Islam has converted so many people. I do not see Islam as being any good for women at all and I am concerned about attempts to change our society in the UK to accommodate this religion. I'd prefer all religion to be a personal thing. I don't want to be affected by religions I do not believe in (ie pretty much all of it). I am astonished how many feminists seem to be pro Islam.

The remaining hostages must be returned home.

I wish I could see a way forward where Israelis and Palestinians could both feel secure. But I can’t. I understand Israel’s behaviour. Positioned where it is, with Hamas as just the latest in a long line of groups overtly planning its destruction, how can they be anything but paranoid?
Palestinians are the butt of bad behaviour by their neighbours as well, none of whom want to get involved possibly because they share the aims of Hamas, possibly because they fear Palestinians unsettling their own population.

I have to oppose Hamas and their objectives, religion and behaviour even though the cost to their own people is horrendous. They are ruling by majority of power if not honest numbers- hard to tell. And their regime is horrendously oppressive and should not be supported. The omnicause are idiots for not considering that.

I do resent it becoming a massive part of our political landscape, though. Protests and political fallouts here because of one of many equally brutal wars around the world. I’m not sure it’s honest. I suspect the underlying motives. I don’t think the people agitating about this give a rats arse about the trauma and oppression experienced elsewhere.

I’m a TERF, and I’m pro-Israel. There are many Muslim countries in the world, but there’s only one Israel. The Temple is significantly older than Christianity or Islam. I’m also passionate about seeing the return of Imperial Iran. Some societies are with us, some are against us.

I support the Palestinian people not Hamas - I think always bringing the argument back to Hamas and what they did/do (which is despicable) is a refusal to acknowledge how awful the situation is now.

I have a lots of respect for people on this board and don’t see any point in arguing with some entrenched views that I disagree with, which aren’t going to change.

My concern for the Palestinian people is motivated neither from a love for Hamas nor a disdain for Israel - it’s care for the normal people caught in the middle who have the right to self determination, health and a stab at happiness just like the rest of us (and that goes for Israelis too)

I don’t comment because feelings run too high and I don’t want to upset people but it doesn’t mean I agree with the posts.

How can Hamas or Palestinian beliefs create inequalities in Israel?

I agree with @SionnachRuadh's excellent post.

I am so bloody tired of the Omnicause - TWAW, anti-Israel, Extinction Rebellion et al, colonialism is the root of all evil etc - and just as tired of anyone questioning it being accused of "right wing".

The political left (as opposed to what I would call the "social left") indulge in purity spirals and an endless one-downmanship of victimhood and oppression olympics. Certain demographics can do no wrong, others no right. What a neat categorisation which removes the need to think for yourself!

As for Israel, my mind constantly boggles at the idea of 'Queers for Palestine' etc when Hamas are an extremist Islamist regime that has an appalling track record on LGBTQ+ rights. As opposed to Israel which is repeatedly shown to be the most LGBTQ+ tolerant country in the Middle East . But the political left has form for being anti-semitic so I guess it's just any excuse to indulge that.

Israel has not, IMO, covered itself in glory in the recent war. I don't know enough about ME politics to have a considered opinion but, given the historical treatment of Jews, I can understand where its military paranoia comes from, but it doesn't excuse some of their actions which have been unacceptably brutal. But October 7th was horrific and Israel, like any country, has the right to defend itself. I feel sorry for ordinary Palestinians caught in the crossfire when Hamas uses them as human shields. But the idea that Palestine - as a country - is the victim here when it was responsible for one of the most sadistic attacks I've ever had the misfortune to read about is...well, it would be laughable if it wasn't so serious. Hamas are open about their hatred of Israel and their wish to obliterate Jews - this being on top of their political repression and long list of human rights abuses - and yet they are somehow seen as the good guys?

As for the original question of why GC women tend to be seen as pro-Israel, I'd say this is due to two things: 1) anything other than a black-and-white condemnation of Israel/support of Palestine is seen as 'pro-Israel', and 2) we are used to using critical thinking skills to see both sides of a situation and understand there is nuance to almost all situations, much as that doesn't chime with left-wing purity politics.

The problem with this accuont, reasonable though it seems, is the lazy, ideological thinking and left/right compartmentalism that consistently seems to be driving this discussion. (Not suggesting that you are guilty of this, BTW, it's merely the state of the prevailing political winds).

The left/right divide as I once understood it, pivoting around economics, a fairer and more even distribution of wealth, adequate recompense for workers, pro-union stance, etc., no longer exists. It seems to have little left to do with this at all, but in the past 20 years has seen a move from fairer economics to 'progressive' individual rights as opposed to the rights of the collective. Note 'rights': not wellbeing or responsibility. Vote Labour, vote Tory, these days you get the same.

Those masquerading as the progressive left are now extremist MRAs, TRAs - the old domain of the slightly further than right-of-centre. Islam was never seen on the left post 9/11 - society was rife with Islamophobia which was equated with conservative religion and associated terrorism. Look at the total about-face in 20 years - now Islam/Palestine is viewed as 'left' whilst Judaism, at the ultimate butt off far-right hatred in WWII, is now viewed as occupying the right itself. I'm happy to consider other perspectives on that topic, but the thinking to my mind seems no more complex than that. The 'left' follow what's no longer left on pain of being branded 'right'; 'far right' at that, and what brands itself as progressive is quite often its own ugly, regressive opposite.

I can't pretend to understand the full nuances of the Israel/Palestine conflict. It's too ancient, too complex and too nuanced - and I'm thinking back to a day when Yasser Arafat was constantly in the news, the PLO had split off into the ANO, a serious effort was made at a compromise solution. Then Rabin was assassinated, after which the whole region became a simmering pot of resentment threatening to overflow at any moment.

I visited Jerusalem and the West Bank in around 2009. I've seen the mess first-hand. It only surprised me that it's taken this long for it to manifest. There is no 'siding' with Israel or Palestine. You're absolutely right that anti-semitism in the UK has reached a frightening epidemic, that the Hamas attack was racist hatred and terrorism, and that Israel has to defend its citizens. By the same token the 'open prison' thing re. the West Bank is often toted as a racist media stereotype. Open prison is exactly what it is. I've been there. I've seen it. I've seen how broken the Palestinian people were. I've also seen how they live within Israel itself - that isn't equality, they occupy the most impoverished reasons and have fewer opportunities. I also believe Netanyahu is orchestrating an unsanctioned, morally dubious, illegal land-grab and starving Palestinians. At present, do I believe that each side simply wants to wipe the other off the map, for which there's no other word for it but genocide? Yes, and one side has more resources than the other to bring that result about. There are also problems with the surrounding Muslim nations' support - or lack thereof - for the Palestinian people. Is a two-state solution even remotely possible? Probably not. We've seen how attempts at that panned out in the past.

It's an ugly, bloody, racist, horrible stalemate with no end in sight - as to whether that suits the political purposes of someone somewhere, that is another issue. But the ones who receive my full sympathies are the innocent citizens on both sides, who are in no way culpable for the actions of their defence leagues, insurgents and terrorists but are as always the first to suffer.

Ease? Maybe for the same reason we shop in supermarkets rather than individual shops, or use amazon for everything. It takes time and effort to look deeper.

I did read what you said properly. If you read both what you said and I wrote, you will realise I was responding you your point about imbalance between Gazan and Israeli society, and I am pointing out that there are many 'imbalances' that are due to Hamas and/or Palestinian beliefs which create inequality.

Some people, though I don't think it's all that many, now just go along with anything they see as 'anti-woke', so they cheer along Israel's actions like they're just done to 'own the libs' and/or because 'See, I'm not antisemitic like those lefties'. (NB, as a Jew I don't believe criticism of Israel is inherently antisemitic)

Why do intelligent women perform such crass puerile stunts in the Palestinian cause?

https://x.com/HeidiBachram/status/1958420106288955672?t=Afq5gjNTJhDtHKXq44x9Jw&s=09

Italian doctors posted videos of throwing out Israeli made medicine. When there was a backlash they said they didn’t actually do it. So either they were prepared to waste life saving drugs or perform empty gestures. Should they really be doctors at all?

Nowhere

I did not accuse you of defending Hamas

Where have I defended Hamas?