Transwoman accused of sexual assault after concealing male genitalia on date

So because vigilante justice is inevitable that is reason enough not to find someone guilty of murder?

"I felt really self conscious and didn't want him to know I had a knob"

wears skin tight leggings to court

I think this is what legal heads would term a bold strategy.

My granny would say "There's nowt as queer as folk" which would probably apply in this situation, although not in the way she'd intended.

So @JamieCannister you are ok for my family to beat up your teenage son if he crosses the line with my teenage daughter? That’s good to know. I always assumed I was supposed to rein in murderous rage.

If I wanted people to spot my schlong I’d wear leggings. But if I didn’t and was claiming that it was easy to mistake me for a woman some nice loose fitting trousers or a skirt would do the job. It’s almost like it’s on purpose

Wouldn’t wear leggings I should say.

100% agree with all of that, subject to the small caveat that vigilante justice will always exist, to a greater or lesser extent, and that if you wish to avoid vigilante justice then its a good idea to NOT commit crime, or if you do, don't commit the sort of crimes that particularly anger and upset people to the point that vigilante justice is relatively likely.

Killing is not the answer. Vigilante justice is not the answer.

Killing is not always murder. Vigilante justice may not be the answer, but it is inevitably going to happen from time to time (not least if you make the victim or their family incredibly angry by committing a heinous act like rape or sex by deception)

I am not a fan of vigilante justice, what I am saying is that there are certain scenarios where being on the end of vigilante justice is almost inevitable. Sex by deception by a gay man on a straight man is one of them. And I am also saying that I see sex by deception very similar to how I see a fight - if you "start it" (the fight, or the deceptive sex) then the the victim can do an awful lot in response before I regard their actions as criminal.

You certainly wouldn't if you were a transwoman who didn't want people to know he had a penis.

It does make you wonder about people's motivations. You could wear anything, but you choose something that clearly shows your crown jewels?

Always the leggings. If I was due in court I would wear leggings. So many better clothing options

I realise it's possible to feel many things at once, but feeling sorry for any perpetrator of a sexual assault goes beyond even my #bekind limits.

comparing the real photographs vs the filtered ones is utterly astonishing. And it just goes to show how much of a fantasy land so many transwomen seem to be living in. They really think they pass, fuelled by this fantasy. It is terrifying and profoundly sad. How will they ever come to peace with their bodies when they have such utterly unrealistic expectations? And this helps to explain why their drive for external validation is endless.

That picture is a little more revealing, isn’t it?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15021327/Snapchat-date-manhood-taken-away-sex-trans-woman.html

A different DM article - scrolling down there's a bit of an Isla Bryson moment. The leggings always give it away, don't they?

I actually feel desperately sorry for Ciara. Assuming that’s the only crime and he’s not behaved badly in multiple other ways, obviously.

Teenaged Ciara was a young gay lad, who for whatever underlying reason identified as trans and got fillers and eyelashes. Any semblance of passing as a teenager is clearly over and has left him pretty badly off.

In the 2+ years since this incident occurred the alleged perpetrator appears to have seriously let himself go (weight gain, lack of fillers and make-up plus no padded/stuffed bra) which makes his maleness more obvious.
Whilst I don't wonder if its part of his defence I noticed that he was very careful to use his bag to prevent an Isla Brison leggings photo

"I work in criminal law. And here is what I feel about this: If it's not disclosed before kissing, that would for me feel like a mild form of sexual deceit. But probably not worthy any criminalization. But to be fooled into doing stuff together in bed would make me feel like I have been wronged in the most intimate setting. And the knowledge that the other person probably had the act of deceit as a strong sexual motive makes it even worse. So I think it should be illegal. It's basically not illegal in most of the world. I think it's illegal in Israel and Britain."

Thanks @PatrickBaitman . I would also argue that any "no disclosure to trans status" is likely to have the worst impact on lesbians who are under a lot of pressure to accept transwomen even with penises as lesbians. As well as being physically weaker. I don't know if any interpretation that didn't reflect that could be discrimination.

It's good that this man who was assaulted came forward. There's clearly written evidence that he did not know he was engaging in sexual activity with a biological male until afterwards. There's still a stigma against male victims of sexual assault coming forward.

I'm sorry, but how drunk do you have to be that you can't tell that's a man? Christ on a bike!

On the subject of violent reactions ...

Nothing - absolutely nothing - justifies murder. In fact murder is by definition a crime - the unlawful killing of a human being.

Not all unlawful killings are murder - hence manslaughter.

And - sadly - some killings can be lawful. For example self defence. In which case there is no crime.

When you start off down the path of imagining and discussing excuses for killing, you are straying in to vengeance not justice. And that is just the law of the jungle where inevitably the strong will do (even more so) as they please.

Not sure that's a great idea.

Gay panic exists among women just as it exists among men. Maybe a bit less, because I think women are inherently more likely to be bisexual, but the really important thing is that a woman is much less likely to injure or kill you.

It's one of the things that go with being same sex attracted in a society that's 95% opposite sex attracted. It's mitigated for gay men by their amazingly efficient hookup culture, but I doubt if there are many lesbians who haven't had the mortifying experience of trying to chat up a woman who turns out to be straight.

This is all fine as long as everyone understands that "no thank you" is the only response that's needed. Honesty is the best policy. It's deliberate deception that's the problem.

There is - and this is well known in the trans community - a subset of male "chasers" who consider themselves straight and have convinced themselves that sex with a penis-having transwoman definitely isn't gay. But those men actively seek out transwomen, and they can knock themselves out if that's their thing.

Hmm... I think after seeing those photos it is going to be very hard to believe that the victim ever thought the accused was a woman.

sex tends to refer to birth sex

"tends to" ?

Well, the highly filtered images we've seen to date have been doing A LOT of heavy lifting...

Apologies for the Daily Fail, but I think it's important for us all to see the unfikterd images from outside court.

Man tells court how he found out his date was transgender after she performed sex act on him mol.im/a/15021327 via https://dailym.ai/android