Toilets in a hospital waiting room

Timely to mention this again:
https://www.euansguide.com/get-involved/safer-toilets/

Obviously the problem with cords is that someone has to be conscious or not too scared in the moment to pull them, and someone has to respond to them.
I have heard on more than one occasion that they were used for self harm.

They also shouldn’t snap!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqjvnkzgr1no

AND presuming that some bored able-bodied user has not practiced their knot-tying skills on the red cord so it is now out of reach of anyone lying on the floor.

I speak from experience - at one of my jobs I could see that the nearest adapted toilet to my desk was regularly used by a number of able-bodied male colleagues, and I used to go in regularly to untangle the red cord and restore it to usefulness, while thinking ' FFS will somebody give them a macrame starter kit for Xmas!'😡

As others have said, they’re wrong in just about every way it’s possible for them to be wrong. Do they at least have red cords in them in case anyone gets into difficulties inside them? Obviously cords don’t help if you collapse suddenly and/or fall and block the door from opening but it’s another thing to check.

I wouldn’t feel safe using those toilets. In a hospital of all places! Shocking

All the features that make a toilet unsafe! None of the features that provide adequate privacy!

They really have outdone themselves!

This set uo is illegal toilets can only be unisex if the sink is IN the lockable room that has floor to ceiling walls and door. If there is a row of cubicles with separate sinks as shown then they must be single sex facilities ie no male cubicles just female ones or the opposite. A single sex facilities cannot have unisex facilities in the same room.

Its "cheap"

Say You have 1000 people using rhe hospital at any given time.
Break that into floors and siting in an area.
You need provision near each group say 100 seats

You could have
• 100 women 0 men in a cervical cancer clinic or
• 0 women 100 men in a prostate cancer clinic
(Ignoring family/ supporters)
To provide service you need twice the amount of uints if you plan for single sex service provision.

Its also "fashionable" to ignore why the laws around toilet provision exist.

Dreadful layout and not particularly safe. I’d feel uneasy going in there alone.

Thank you for this very detailed response. It's very interesting. And bad the hospitals don't comply. Could it be to force women into spaces that contain men when they shouldn't? It certainly seems that way.

I refer the hon mem to my earlier answer... sorry, I get delusions of grandeur when it comes to UK Building regs re toilets😂

The set-up you describe sounds wrong: unisex 'universal' toilets are supposed to have handwashing facilities inside, there should not be shared handwashing facilities.

1.16 There should be no shared hand-washing facilities in corridors, circulation spaces or shared spaces outside universal toilets of Type A or Type B.

The idea of the 'universal' toilet is not to mix men and women together as they use the toilet and wash their hands - the idea is to enclose the whole er... process in a single, individual space.

So men and women use the unisex facilities consecutively, but they are not supposed to be forced to mix at any time, e.g. washing their hands. The specs are very clear about it being an enclosed space for private, individual use, including handwashing.

This sounds a bit conspiracy-theory-ish, but I'm beginning to think that the intended design and layout has been subverted into forcing women, like your mum, DiscoBob, to use toilet facilities in proximity to men, an absolute denial of anything even resembling a women-only space.

Is there also a hint of malice in venues removing women's toilets [not, apparently men's...] to instal unisex toilets?

All this disruption, distress and expense, let it not be forgotten, to placate the tiny percentage of the population who are transgender and who refuse to use the toilets designated for people of their sex.

How the hell is this happening with newish builds? I don't understand why toilet provision cannot be standardised in every hospital in the country. But that doesn't seem to happen.

They are bloody awful and I feel a) exposed b) don't fully consider privacy and dignity of anyone who has a medical issue or accident.

They are ESPECIALLY inappropriate in hospitals for this reason

That seems dodgy. It's a bit like one I went to the other day, also in a hospital. It wasn't super busy and there were other loos in the corridor, so it just had two cubicles inside, with sinks opposite.

The main door stated M/F but when you got in one was M and one was F. My elderly mum went in and then was swiftly followed by a man. Obviously he did nothing wrong just using it as it said unisex. But he could have done worse?

It felt uneasy. The space was very small and clearly used to be a bank of two female cubicles. I wouldn't like to go to the toilet that close to a man then stand right next to him washing my hands, maybe doing makeup etc.

Ventalation in a post C19 world in a cancer ward area. Even with mechanical vents in a busy area the multiple doors stop the airflow.

You are walking into a tiny room which multiple women and men have been in over the last quarter hour and then into a smaller one.

Where are the inflow and out flow vents?

From AI scrape :

"In the UK, ventilation building codes often refer to air changes per hour (ACH), particularly in relation to purge ventilation, which is designed to rapidly remove pollutants and excess heat. A common requirement is 4 air changes per hour for habitable rooms. This can be achieved through openable windows, doors, or mechanical ventilation systems.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Purge Ventilation:
The UK Building Regulations, specifically Approved Document F, often mandate a purge ventilation rate of at least 4 air changes per hour for habitable rooms. This is a key aspect of managing overheating and removing pollutants like those from cooking, cleaning, or even just breathing"

That’s a horrible and unlawful design OP. Best of luck with your treatment and complaints.

I have had several emails and then a FOI request to the DfE. The toilet designs they have in their school specific brief for secondary schools, they told me, are designed for privacy. I asked about health and safety. They told me they hold no equality impact assessments for these designs for the health and safety of pupils (in regards to assaults on girls and any pupils collapsing) in their department. They referred me to Health and Safety legislation from 1974. Schools have to abide by this too. The Health and Safety Executive are aware of this.

The current designs in the DfE guidelines are discriminatory against those with invisible disabilities and girls. I hope now that now toilets are single sex, the single sex designs will return. The door gaps are needed to prevent assaults and alert others if something bad has happened in the toilet cubicle. Of course the area in front of the cubicles also needs to be single sex so single sex basins too.

The school specific brief even asks if toilets are to be unisex or single sex. There is debate over whether a cubicle with full height partitions and doors is a room. In any case, I think sharing sinks is wrong. But it’s been allowed time and time again in new schools and refurbishments, usually framed as ‘inclusive’..

Hello
Thank you @NoBinturongsHereMate for directing me to here and everyone including @MarieDeGournay for giving lots of information.

They do not meet building regulations which they should have known by last year as unusually the British Standards were published for all to see in the form of Document T (2024). There is a chance, your hospital setting is excluded for some reason but if anything the health and safety should be higher standards in your setting. The plans for these toilets would have been drafted ages ago, no doubt as ‘inclusive’ or cost effective (which they are not) or spacing saving/ fit in with what space is left. I think you are right that the male and female have been stuck on as toilets had made the headlines (and they may have had complaints). They also don’t comply with Health and Safety regulations.

In hospitals more than most places, there have been deaths in toilets. The last thing you need is a toilet with a full height door that is design to rest shut. Although bodies aren’t likely to be in there days (6 days in one council office recently) because of better cleaning regimes, it only takes a few minutes for survivable to become not. 11% of cardiac arrests happen on the toilet. The process of elimination (holding your breath and pushing) puts people more at risk of a cardiac event. Added to the fact that it’s the place where people go to when they feel ill, then that’s why all public toilets should have a quick release mechanism to open the door outwards so a collapsed body doesn’t push the door shut. This does not appear to be the case in these set of toilets (again against building regs) as the hinges can’t be seen. I have got several examples where people have been found dead in hospital toilets. My examples are mostly from newspapers. It will happen much more frequently than ever reaches the newspapers.

The last two look like ambulant toilets? These are usually bigger and have handrails. They are for ambulant people who are frail and need handrails and a shelf (good for changing bags/dressings etc). These look like they have both been designated to men. They do look like the door opens outwards so at least you would be able to get to a collapsed person after the door had been unlocked (once you were aware they had collapsed). There may be a quick release mechanism for the door to open on the skirting board? I can’t tell what that is.

The Women’s Right Network have done some work on how many assaults happen in hospitals. Unfortunately it appears no one has data on where in a hospital they take place.

My data (from various locations) shows that children are led into private toilet cubicles. The other thing is men lie in wait then push a woman back into a cubicle. Usually unisex toilets are self contained, private, resistant to sound and lead off a main thoroughfare to try and minimise the later situation. Here you have the worst of all worlds as it’s been bodged.

The last thing to say is that they can’t be cleaned properly. Unisex toilets are the worst for germs. The gaps under and over doors and partitions are there for safety and health. They increase ventilation and it means cleaners can properly rinse (drench) the floor with detergent and there’s not build up on surfaces.

They really are shocking. I am travelling at the moment but can send you over some links on health and safety if you want. I am not sure what I have posted on the other thread so don’t know what I am repeating. If there’s any specific questions or links, please let me know.

I have attached a relevant article on germs.

All the best with your treatment. How thoughtful that you thinking of others when going through this xx

https://salus.global/article-show/pathogen-findings-raise-concerns-about-move-to-unisex-hospital-facilities

Hope we've been helpful, and most importantly - wishing you well and strong!

While waiting for her to arrive, you'll find a lot of the info on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5316505-toilets-a-chance-to-make-them-safer-for-everyone?page=2&reply=146522929

@MarieDeGournay has provided the key document, but you need Keeptoiletssafe for the full argument for your letter. I'll see if I can nudge her this way.

It sounds incredibly dangerous to me to have fully enclosed toilets in a cancer ward of a hospital. Especially with 3 for each sex. (So people are less likely to notice if one is closed for a long time.)

Schools have different regs, I think - yep I've just checked, the Building Regs Doc T explicitly excludes school buildings, so not relevant.
There are experts on schools/toilets/changing rooms on here, so I'm sure someone can give school-specific guidance.

And the men are assigned the two toilets at the end, which have outwards opening doors - easier access to a use if they've collapsed, and easier for a user with restricted mobility to exit the cubicle.