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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

This thread is specifically for people who think JK Rowling is awful so..

785 replies

CurlewKate · 18/08/2025 05:44

If you don't think she is please don’t post. Please can you tell me specifically what she has said or done that is so bad. I promise that I will listen and not argue. If you could include links that would be great. If your inclination is to assume that I’m posting in bad faith and any reasonably well informed person must be stupid or bigoted not to know, then please just let the thread die.

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LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 18/08/2025 10:36

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 10:00

I believe the language she uses is deliberately divisive a inflammatory. She deliberately tries to hurt people, and I find that horrible. You can support a cause, have strong beliefs, without making out others are ignorant, or mentally ill. When I asked her, straight out, if she supported all women what ever their POV on the trans issue, she said no, she only supports the women who agree with her. Which is her right, but she says it so nastily.

I think it is her use of such cruel language that gets peoples backs up and upsets them. And her support for Kelly Jay Keane who is truly an awful horrible person - she has said she will flatten women who don't agree with her.

I respect everyone's right to support causes and hold opinions. I don't support peoples right to be cruel and nasty to any group of people who exist legally.

‘When I asked her, straight out, if she supported all women what ever their POV on the trans issue, she said no, she only supports the women who agree with her. Which is her right, but she says it so nastily.’

It would be lovely to see the proof of that, as surely if someone like her interacted with you you would take a screenshot. Because if not, it’s just hearsay.

heroinechic · 18/08/2025 10:35

All I ever see of JKR is her getting into slanging matches on Twitter. The last thing I saw was her saying something about a back sack and crack wax to a trans woman. Unnecessarily personal IMO although I know India W is hardly a victim. I think things like that are beneath her and drag her down too.

I find the hero worship of her on here a bit cringe.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/08/2025 10:29

TheLudditesWereRight · 18/08/2025 10:13

Both are problematic. HtH

Her retorts to awful things like rape threats aren’t problematic in the slightest. Have a ‘HtH’ back.

HelenHywater · 18/08/2025 10:28

I think this is an interesting question actually. I worked with and know people who thought that what she said was absolutely vile and abhorrent (even her first long essay on the subject which seemed to me very tolerant and kind). I don't understand how this is the case. And no one has managed to explain to me why what she said is so vile.

mbizzles · 18/08/2025 10:27

ThatCyanSheep · 18/08/2025 08:28

I don’t think she’s as awful as a lot of people seem to.

I just think it’s kind of sad. She has so much money, and she spends all her time on such a minuscule issue compared to what the country is facing. She could do so much good for the nation, and she won’t.

Oh my goodness, do you have any idea? According to Forbes, she's thought to have donated $200 million to charities between 2005-2025! Please, google 'JK Rowling philanthropy' before spouting such nonsense again.

MarieDeGournay · 18/08/2025 10:27

Cutleryclaire · 18/08/2025 09:43

I largely agree with this. I think she’s smart, brave and I’m incredibly grateful for how she has used her voice to fight for women’s rights. But am becoming uncomfortable with some of her more recent tweets / blogs eg the review of Sturgeon’s book which was personal and vicious.

Usually she uses her articulateness for well reasoned arguments that show good sense, but I feel it’s lately being used as a weapon to mock individuals or indeed whole groups, rather than problematic ideas of some within that group.

I'm one of the probably very few people on here who has never read a single word of JKR's fiction. All I know of her is her pro-women activism, her philanthropy, and those very very witty tweetsSmile
That's enough to make me think that she is an admirable person, a tireless defender of the undefended, and someone who has made a huge contribution to social justice when it was/is under threat.

I have to take issue with your description of her review of NS's Frankly as 'personal and vicious.'
I thought the reviews by JKR and K. Stock were careful to avoid being personal and vicious, though the temptation - and the ammunition provided by material in NS's book - must have been strong. I'm sure they knew their reviews would be scrutinised closely for anything personal or below the belt.

The reviews were about what NS has said in her book, and how it is at odds with what NS did in her public life. Not, note, her personal life. Her public, political life, which was extraordinary, and extraordinarily damaging to women's rights, so hard-hitting criticism, including from JKR is just par for the course.

Hard-hitting, fact-based criticism of an apologia about a politician's controversial and ultimately failed career is not the same a personal and vicious attack, and I don't think it is correct to describe JKR's review as such.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 10:26

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 18/08/2025 08:59

Rowling tweeted support for Maya Forstater, the expression of whose views constitute harassment and victimisation of transwomen and discrimination against them.

Rowling spoke out against a Devex article for using the phrase "people who menstruate" instead of "women". She stated that denying the reality of biological sex erases the experiences of women worldwide and eliminates the possibility of same-sex attraction. Harassment etc, as above.

Rowling published an essay on her personal website in 2020 in which she revealed that she was a survivor of domestic abuse and sexual assault, and stated that "When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he's a woman...then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside". This conflates TW with male predators.

Rowling argues that adults are promoting an ideology that is harmful to children, and claims the term cisgender is "ideological language signifying belief in the unfalsifiable concept of gender identity." Thus denying the existence of trans people and fulminating against healthcare for them.

She is a hypocrite who claims that her beliefs arise out of a sincere concern for transgender people, and in particular, young transgender men.

Rowling opposes legislation to advance gender self-recognition and enable transition without a medical diagnosis.

She also voiced opposition to the Scottish Gender Recognition Reform Bill, aimed at allowing transgender people to change their legal gender more easily and subsequently she donated £70,000 to the legal challenge brought by For Women Scotland against the Scottish Ministers in the UK Supreme Court, which, on 16 April 2025, ruled that the legal definition of a woman in the UK Equality Act 2010 is based on biological sex.

In response to Edinburgh's rape crisis centre being run by a trans woman, Rowling established a sexual assault crisis centre, Beira's Place in December 2022 that excludes trans women.

In response to a fan praising this decision, Rowling tweeted "Merry Terfmas".

Rowling has also expressed her opposition to the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021, and when this went into effect in April 2024, she deliberately misgendered several transgender women to challenge the new law.

TLDR

She doesn't believe that humans can change sex.

She's right. They can't.

Your TLDR was the only part of your post that was accurate.

By the way, Maya Forstater won her case and the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre lost theirs.

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 10:23

OldCrone · 18/08/2025 10:14

When I asked her, straight out, if she supported all women what ever their POV on the trans issue, she said no, she only supports the women who agree with her. Which is her right, but she says it so nastily.

Can you post a link to this discussion?

I think it is her use of such cruel language that gets peoples backs up and upsets them. And her support for Kelly Jay Keane who is truly an awful horrible person - she has said she will flatten women who don't agree with her.

Link?

It was all around 2 years ago. It's all on twitter so feel free to find it. But no, I am not posting links to my personal twitter on here, and I don't have time to trawl through a few years of tweets from very very tweety people.

JKR was one of many who jumped on the bandwagon of doxing a close friend of mine as she had previously held a job they didn't agree with (literally just an E&D role in a charity where she had been in post when they released a pride flag badge, that is all). JKR at least had the guts to delete her posts when told the information she had was 100% incorrect (that my friend was a trans woman, not born a woman. Apparently pregnancy and child birth weren't enough for others to withdraw their tweets and videos). Others didn't, even when it led to friends children being bullied.

EasternSkies · 18/08/2025 10:23

Helleofabore · 18/08/2025 08:25

Did you mean to start a thread that invited people to abuse JK Rowling? I understand that it is not your intention, but will be the logical outcome ?

Asking factually what you think someone has done wrong is absolutely not an invitation to abuse someone.

But the assumption signals everything that is wrong about debate / misinformation/ polarised division on SM / the weaponisation of identity politics etc.

MN is supposedly a mature discussion site of / for women (and other parents) responsible enough to care for small children , and some Pp have given calm informative answers from their own POV.

Let’s hope this continues.

BundleBoogie · 18/08/2025 10:23

ThatCyanSheep · 18/08/2025 08:45

Yet she spends all her time on social media dividing society 🤷🏼‍♀️ it’s clear this thread wasn’t started in good faith asking for actual contributions, so I’m out

Really? Are you tracking the amount of time she is on social media? She finds rather a lot of time to devote to her vast philanthropic efforts so I’m not sure you are quite right on her time management.

What do you mean by ‘dividing society’? Don’t you think the trans activists did that when they unilaterally decided to obliterate the legal definition of literally half of society? That’s pretty decisive imo.

You’re just wanting to shout the messenger highlighting the issue.

toastedbreadcrumbs · 18/08/2025 10:21

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 10:15

He did not selflessly give it all up!! He is a disturbed man who now can't back down. His family chose to leave him due to his views being so extreme - he didn't "give them up". He didn't "give up work", he lost work due to the cruelty he espouses.

Yawn 🥱

A typical TRA response, real women respect him greatly and are thankful for everything he has done for this movement at huge personal cost to himself.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 10:20

ThatCyanSheep · 18/08/2025 08:33

She could be addressing things like child poverty, she could be helping people like Marcus rashford did. I just find it all quite sad that the elite in this country focus on the divisive rhetoric rather than actually trying to improve things.

She's donated over £250 million to various charitable causes, she funds research into motor neurone disease, she set up a charity to end the institutionalisation of children, she set up and solely funds the only female only rape crisis service in Scotland. How is that not helping people???

illinivich · 18/08/2025 10:19

Its obvious that JKR is skeptical about trans ideology. And that skepticism has either grown over time or shes more comfortable with expressing it.

People who are more supportive of trans, either completely or think its more nuanced, have to stop her talking and highlighting the madness.

Nobody cares where she spends her money, how she poses in photos or if she gets on with actors. Shes been rich for 25 years, and its only been since she spoke up about this that anyone has thought about any of these things.

Its that TRA know that if she tweets something, it gets a large audience and one they cant control. And trans isnt like any other issue that becomes more accepted more its debated. It cannot cope with the level of light JKR will bring to it.

Catiette · 18/08/2025 10:19

InMyShowgirlEra · 18/08/2025 10:04

She could be using her platform for good, instead she uses it to target marginalised and vulnerable groups and attack them repeatedly. Not just transgender people, cis-women who appear too "manly", asexuals and anyone who doesn't agree with her stance.

There's also a lot of racist stereotypes in the Harry Potter books, and they're not at all well-written. All the ideas are stolen and they are full of plot holes. There are no openly gay characters but she's tried to curry favour with the gay community by randomly going back and naming characters as gay, despite no evidence of them being gay when she wrote it. It all comes across as calculated and fake.

If you don't believe that trans people are really the gender they say they are, you're probably able to overlook all that.

The irony of posing as a man in order to write books about how people shouldn't present as the opposite gender will never stop being ridiculous.

I won't be arguing further about it on this thread or anywhere else- you asked and I answered.

But you didn't entirely answer - at the point I've reached in the thread, there are still few to no quotes. Eg. the racist stereotypes - please quote (not just character names, which I can guess at, but the actual words). Genuinely interested.

Neededa · 18/08/2025 10:18

I guess we go back to the idea that JK is not seen to be “inclusive”
My 24 year old niece who lives in another continent, said to me last year whilst visiting, and knowing I am left of centre “well, obviously we don’t like JK any more” thinking I would agree.
When I said that I actually disagreed and asked whether she (my niece) had actually read what JK had written, she admitted she hadn’t.
So if you are truly asking why? Why, people “don’t like” her? I would suggest that in certain parts of society, and (although I do hate to say this) in certain age groups, believing and promoting inclusivity for all, comes at the detriment of outliers/truth tellers.

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 18/08/2025 10:17

toastedbreadcrumbs · 18/08/2025 10:08

No, because he selflessly gave up everything he had - his career and family, to allow himself more time on X to fight this evil ideology.

That's as maybe, but unless she asked him to do that I don't see why JKR should take any flack for it.

menopausalmare · 18/08/2025 10:17

Check out her charitable work. She's given millions to improve children's literacy and support victims of sexual abuse.

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 18/08/2025 10:15

InMyShowgirlEra · 18/08/2025 10:04

She could be using her platform for good, instead she uses it to target marginalised and vulnerable groups and attack them repeatedly. Not just transgender people, cis-women who appear too "manly", asexuals and anyone who doesn't agree with her stance.

There's also a lot of racist stereotypes in the Harry Potter books, and they're not at all well-written. All the ideas are stolen and they are full of plot holes. There are no openly gay characters but she's tried to curry favour with the gay community by randomly going back and naming characters as gay, despite no evidence of them being gay when she wrote it. It all comes across as calculated and fake.

If you don't believe that trans people are really the gender they say they are, you're probably able to overlook all that.

The irony of posing as a man in order to write books about how people shouldn't present as the opposite gender will never stop being ridiculous.

I won't be arguing further about it on this thread or anywhere else- you asked and I answered.

Why are TRAs so hellbent on proving she's a bad writer? Maybe she's not a literary giant, but the Harry Potter books were a genuine spontaneous success. And, you do know that evil people can be creative geniuses, right? And there's no correlation between virtue and worldly success, rather famously.

Wait....I know! She's sold her soul to the Devil, hasn't she?

Screamingabdabz · 18/08/2025 10:15

What I read here is a load of ‘she should just stfu’. Interesting. Same old misogyny. Woman speaks up for truth and justice but because she doesn’t know her place and upsets men she is the one that gets burned at the stake. It’s like those backward cultures that punish women for male crimes. Depressing.

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 10:15

toastedbreadcrumbs · 18/08/2025 10:08

No, because he selflessly gave up everything he had - his career and family, to allow himself more time on X to fight this evil ideology.

He did not selflessly give it all up!! He is a disturbed man who now can't back down. His family chose to leave him due to his views being so extreme - he didn't "give them up". He didn't "give up work", he lost work due to the cruelty he espouses.

OldCrone · 18/08/2025 10:14

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 10:00

I believe the language she uses is deliberately divisive a inflammatory. She deliberately tries to hurt people, and I find that horrible. You can support a cause, have strong beliefs, without making out others are ignorant, or mentally ill. When I asked her, straight out, if she supported all women what ever their POV on the trans issue, she said no, she only supports the women who agree with her. Which is her right, but she says it so nastily.

I think it is her use of such cruel language that gets peoples backs up and upsets them. And her support for Kelly Jay Keane who is truly an awful horrible person - she has said she will flatten women who don't agree with her.

I respect everyone's right to support causes and hold opinions. I don't support peoples right to be cruel and nasty to any group of people who exist legally.

When I asked her, straight out, if she supported all women what ever their POV on the trans issue, she said no, she only supports the women who agree with her. Which is her right, but she says it so nastily.

Can you post a link to this discussion?

I think it is her use of such cruel language that gets peoples backs up and upsets them. And her support for Kelly Jay Keane who is truly an awful horrible person - she has said she will flatten women who don't agree with her.

Link?

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 18/08/2025 10:13

@Vaxtable she had done nothing bad shes fighting for safe places for women

That is a bad thing to do in some people's eyes.

Imnotgonnamiss · 18/08/2025 10:13

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 18/08/2025 08:59

Rowling tweeted support for Maya Forstater, the expression of whose views constitute harassment and victimisation of transwomen and discrimination against them.

Rowling spoke out against a Devex article for using the phrase "people who menstruate" instead of "women". She stated that denying the reality of biological sex erases the experiences of women worldwide and eliminates the possibility of same-sex attraction. Harassment etc, as above.

Rowling published an essay on her personal website in 2020 in which she revealed that she was a survivor of domestic abuse and sexual assault, and stated that "When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he's a woman...then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside". This conflates TW with male predators.

Rowling argues that adults are promoting an ideology that is harmful to children, and claims the term cisgender is "ideological language signifying belief in the unfalsifiable concept of gender identity." Thus denying the existence of trans people and fulminating against healthcare for them.

She is a hypocrite who claims that her beliefs arise out of a sincere concern for transgender people, and in particular, young transgender men.

Rowling opposes legislation to advance gender self-recognition and enable transition without a medical diagnosis.

She also voiced opposition to the Scottish Gender Recognition Reform Bill, aimed at allowing transgender people to change their legal gender more easily and subsequently she donated £70,000 to the legal challenge brought by For Women Scotland against the Scottish Ministers in the UK Supreme Court, which, on 16 April 2025, ruled that the legal definition of a woman in the UK Equality Act 2010 is based on biological sex.

In response to Edinburgh's rape crisis centre being run by a trans woman, Rowling established a sexual assault crisis centre, Beira's Place in December 2022 that excludes trans women.

In response to a fan praising this decision, Rowling tweeted "Merry Terfmas".

Rowling has also expressed her opposition to the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021, and when this went into effect in April 2024, she deliberately misgendered several transgender women to challenge the new law.

TLDR

She doesn't believe that humans can change sex.

I think this is the root of the issue.

Some people believe trans women are women and transmen are men. Either because they believe people can change sex, which isn’t really the case based on a typical understanding of what sex is &/OR because they believe gender is the defining characteristic and sex is secondary.

Other people think that statement is nonsensical as they believe sex is immutable, which is the case based on a typical understanding of what sex is &/or that sex is the defining characteristic and gender is secondary.

My general impression is Rowling’s initial support for Maya Forstarter and comment about menstruation was mainly a reaction to misogyny. I’m yet to see the term men replaced with people who ejaculate or people with a penis. It’s only natal women whose terminology gets messed with. Also it’s about the fact that for a lot of women gender norms are something that feels imposed and restrictive vs a defining characteristic of their womanhood so making gender the important thing vs sex can feel oppressive.

After those initial posts she got such a lot of truly horrendous responses from some trans people it really entrenched any negative stereotype about trans women. At this point she probably is transphobic in the truest sense of the word because who wouldn’t be afraid of trans women generally after the responses she’s had. She’s then seen it as her duty to protect other women and it’s become a bit of a crusade.

I understand why people feel hurt by her comments and I don’t think they are very helpful because the recent ones in particular feel combative and very dismissive of trans identities. In general with the debate the firmly entrenched views get shouted about a lot and most people in reality are more moderate. We should however be able to have a debate about the intersection between sex and gender and when sex is actually the most important characteristic and we should be able to draw some lines to say some things it’s more reasonable to categorise by sex. To
me personally things like toilets and changing rooms are very unworkable so you may need to look at other creative solutions but things like shelters, rape crisis centres and prisons where you have very vulnerable women it really does matter that those spaces can be retained as single sex.

Martharian · 18/08/2025 10:13

MrsSkylerWhite · 18/08/2025 09:31

I don’t think she’s awful but I really hate that photo of her smoking a cigar and drinking, presumably whisky or similar.

It was in reference to this, in case that helps give context to it.

I think it’s a great photo, personally, but each to their own.

The A Team 80S GIF
TheLudditesWereRight · 18/08/2025 10:13

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/08/2025 10:02

I also find this completely wild. The problem is always her response, not what she is responding to. Which is usually vile.

Both are problematic. HtH