Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

This thread is specifically for people who think JK Rowling is awful so..

785 replies

CurlewKate · 18/08/2025 05:44

If you don't think she is please don’t post. Please can you tell me specifically what she has said or done that is so bad. I promise that I will listen and not argue. If you could include links that would be great. If your inclination is to assume that I’m posting in bad faith and any reasonably well informed person must be stupid or bigoted not to know, then please just let the thread die.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 15:15

Catiette · 18/08/2025 14:32

To address your last line first, what on earth makes you think I'm just engaging to insult people. Please have a look at my posting history (and what makes this site different from the feral Twitter I typically avoid). With a wry smile, I find this line... well, rather insulting.

That aside - or not, as what follows does rely very much on our respective perceptions of what is "insulting"...

I can see some of your points, but not all. My view is that we should always be alert to the possibility of racism, but - particularly with the dilution of critical race theory by well-meaning but confused EDI activists - as a society we've somehow become vulnerable to all of the following errors of thinking:

  1. a clumsily awkward conflation of objective acknowledgement of legitimate difference with prejudice against that difference - returning to primary-school logic, in this context, a) could well be b), but needn't always be b) by definition.

  2. the presumption that adopting a feature of another culture is by definition appropriative and insulting - so-called "cultural appropriation"

  3. a terror of previously safely satirical stereotyping (as an entirely understandable and much-needed backlash against scarily recent and ongoing racist stereotyping)

  4. a presumption of offence

Cho Chang- (if you want to ignore the fact her name is racist we can do) but a sweet, intelligent Asian girl who cries all the time (we're clearly supposed to forget that her boyfriend just died and Harry jumped right on in there) and has no other character development.

I have no issue with this character, based on this. I'd say it falls under

Firstly, 1) recognisably Asian name - not definitively racist and secondly 3)&4) presumption of stereotyping on the basis that this character is Asian

I'd honestly say that I find your own assumption that Cho Chang crying is racist stereotyping more guilty of stereotyping than the character itself: you're the one presuming that a minor character's occasional appearances as a distressed love interest may be cynically perceived as in some way "representative" of a particular cultural tendency (I'm assuming diligent Asian schoolgirls? unsure...)

Parvati Patil becomes absorbed by divination early on, seen even in the wizarding world as a nonsense and feeding into "mystical" Asian stereotypes, and Padma just disappears. In the books, they are at least "pretty", which seems to be the only descriptor they really get, but the film undoes that because no-one could be bothered to actually dress them properly and wanted to focus to stay on Hermione.

As for my comment above.

The Irish characters (Seamus Finnigan, but also Luna after the casting decision was made and signed off explicitly by JK)- one is an idiot who is always blowing something up, the other is a lovable eccentric who believes in a wide range of conspiracy theories and would be a tin-foil hat wearer in the muggle world.

More with you on this one - always thought so. I felt the same way about Merry and Pippin in the the Lord of the Rings franchise (although, while this was far more extreme, I don't think Peter Jackson received the same condemnation?) The difference between this and the two examples above is, I think, that Seamus is erring on comic caricature. Although I also think I need to reread the books to avoid conflating them with the films in this respect.

There are very few characters explicitly identified as black in the books but we do have Dean Thomas who JK has said was black although he isn't defined as such in the UK version, which is a problem in itself. He's not too bright, always in trouble and hangs out with Seamus. His Dad left him.

I like the colour-blind nature of Hogwarts. I didn't really consider who may or may not be black. I can see the argument for making this more explicit, though. But how?

And Kingsley Shacklebolt...do I really need to go into why that's problematic?

Actually, yes – I'm not being facetious. Haven’t a clue what the issue is, whether because I don’t know my Potter well enough or I may not view there as being an issue.

Fleur is hyper-sexualised and extremely passionate.

OK - another caricature. But I think I'd put this under 3) and 4) on balance. I find it very sad that modern woke culture labels playful stereotyping of German and French culture as racist. There's a fine line, and it's nuanced as heck, but it's there. Remove it and we seek to remove something that's very necessary to our humanity and society: like it or not, we do seek membership of one group and enjoy mocking another. I think the issue is there there's a power imbalance, and there isn't between the British and French. Bring on the British character in French teen fiction called Le Bif Steck!

Lavender Brown was black in the film until the filmmakers realised she had some lines, then she was recast as white!

Tenuous as heck - this is, to me, very much 4), looking for offence. Be alert to the possibility,but don't presume without evidence. That would risk engaging in prejudice yourself.

Don't get me started on the hook-nosed, money-obsessed goblins.

This is one I want to look into more. My current impression is that it's an unevidenced bad-faith slur on Rowling that 1) conflates the films and her books (again, I'd ask for quotes from the books, esp. re. the goblins' appearance) & 2) disregards the entire mythology of the goblin, which may have been exploited for anti-semitic purposes at points because of certain coincicidental overlaps between prejudiced stereotypes and the goblin archetype, but wasn't originally such, to the best of my knowledge.

As an aside, JK Rowling has explicitly confirmed that lycanthropy was a metaphor for HIV/AIDS. Apparently, likening AIDS sufferers to people who turn into uncontrollable werewolves who attack people in the night was meant to REDUCE stigma.

I didn't know this. But are you seriously saying that you believe the character of Lupin could increase stigma against AIDs sufferers?! As with Cho Chang above, I actually find your attitude here, and the societal trends it reflects, somewhat disturbing. Yes, we need to be alert to and fight against injustice. But when doing so turns into dismissing someone else's well-intentioned attempt to do exactly the same as being in some way phobic, or taking metaphor too literally, as a result of your own assumptions and preconceptions, you're embarking on very dangerous path that, itself, risks blundering into bigotry. To come full circle, I think it risks leading to the point of view underlying your line asking me not to insult you - an unjustifed readiness to presume bad faith intent, presuming something wholly unfounded about an individual, presumably based on the forum on which I post.

That attitude is, I think, not reflective of the values you seek to uphold.

bigotry
noun [ U ]
the fact of having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life

Edited

I think the great irony is that JK Rowling was having a go at being inclusive back in the 90s when nobody was that interested in diversity and inclusion.

She was writing before the days of sensitivity readers, in the very early days she was writing without even the internet to guide her, and she had a pretty good go at representing different ethnicities, backgrounds and religions, as well as people with disabilities and visible differences.

OK, maybe some of it comes across as a bit clumsy now, in 2025. And of course no other children's author from the early 1990s has been anywhere near as successful or political as her, so their books aren't coming under the same scrutiny. But I remember most of the children's books I read being pretty much exclusively about white people. I'd put the Harry Potter books in the same category as, for example, Janet and Allan Ahlberg. Mostly pretty white, but had a go at diversity and inclusion before diversity and inclusion was really a thing.

Her Cormoran Strike series does a much better job of representing human diversity IMO, and that's what she's writing now, rather than 30 years ago.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 15:03

OldCrone · 18/08/2025 14:46

It was all around 2 years ago. It's all on twitter so feel free to find it. But no, I am not posting links to my personal twitter on here, and I don't have time to trawl through a few years of tweets from very very tweety people.

You don't have time to find something you claim is there, but you assume I have time to find something for which there is no evidence that it actually exists. And I'm not on twitter so I'd never be able to find it anyway. I'll take this as proof that the comments you attribute to JKR were never actually made by her.

If you have evidence you need to post it, not tell people to find it themselves.

They're all so sure it exists, yet never able to post a link to it themselves. Ever.

CurlewKate · 18/08/2025 14:55

I do find it a little odd that on a thread asking for evidence of JKR being a dangerous and unpleasant person, the only things which have been evidenced are plot holes and some era-typical stereotyping in a series of fantasy books she wrote…..

OP posts:
OldCrone · 18/08/2025 14:46

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 10:23

It was all around 2 years ago. It's all on twitter so feel free to find it. But no, I am not posting links to my personal twitter on here, and I don't have time to trawl through a few years of tweets from very very tweety people.

JKR was one of many who jumped on the bandwagon of doxing a close friend of mine as she had previously held a job they didn't agree with (literally just an E&D role in a charity where she had been in post when they released a pride flag badge, that is all). JKR at least had the guts to delete her posts when told the information she had was 100% incorrect (that my friend was a trans woman, not born a woman. Apparently pregnancy and child birth weren't enough for others to withdraw their tweets and videos). Others didn't, even when it led to friends children being bullied.

It was all around 2 years ago. It's all on twitter so feel free to find it. But no, I am not posting links to my personal twitter on here, and I don't have time to trawl through a few years of tweets from very very tweety people.

You don't have time to find something you claim is there, but you assume I have time to find something for which there is no evidence that it actually exists. And I'm not on twitter so I'd never be able to find it anyway. I'll take this as proof that the comments you attribute to JKR were never actually made by her.

If you have evidence you need to post it, not tell people to find it themselves.

goldtrap · 18/08/2025 14:44

Ah, I've found an actual quote by JKR herself. (Since the OP asked for quotes)
She invented Quidditch after a row with her boyfriend. She recognised that the game 'infuriates men, in my experience (why is the Snitch so valuable etc) which is quite satisfying given my state of mind when I invented it.'

Ha. Well, it also infuriates me, and I'm not a bloke.

So on that basis, and because I found a quote (it's her annotation at the start of chapter 11 of HP&thePS, auctioned at Sotheby's in 2013, if I'm citing my references), I hereby present evidence that JKR is 'awful' (to have attempted to piss off men, but ended up annoying me. Not a man. Where's the solidarity, now, JK?)

Merrymouse · 18/08/2025 14:42

takealettermsjones · 18/08/2025 11:53

I think people must forget that JK Rowling is a person. Being a multimillionaire doesn't strip her of her right to an opinion, or to a twitter account for that matter. If people don't like reading what she has to say, they can unfollow/block her.

And if she's as awful as some would have us believe, surely most people would have done that by now? And thus, problem solved - platform gone! But obviously, that hasn't happened. She's sold about 650 million books, and she has 14 million followers. Can it be the case that all of those 14 million people are hateful bigots? Or is it possible that some are reasonable people who happen to agree with her, at least in part?

I've followed her for a long time because of her books, so I read her initial tweets and essay when they happened. Her language was a lot more careful and balanced then, it's true. She is coarser now, less timid, more blunt. A lot of people have brought this attitude shift up as a kind of gotcha - you said you'd march with trans people! You wouldn't now! And they're right, but I don't think it's a gotcha. With every dick pic, doxx, and death threat, she ran out of a few more fucks to give, and I don't blame her at all.

Edited

I think that for a long time she was expected to be everyone's mum, partly because vulnerable people were so invested in the universe she created.

However, I suspect she came to the conclusion that this wasn't a healthy relationship for anyone.

PractisingMyTelekenipsis · 18/08/2025 14:33

goldtrap · 18/08/2025 14:05

I know! That is my whole point! It's vanishingly impossible to score goals what with all the bludgers flying around. So you'd have to score 15 goals to just make it to 150 (15 x 10pt quaffles). Then the other team could have no goals but gets 150 for the Snitch and the game is over. Oh, but is the game over? Because then it's a tie. Or what if the snitch is never caught. The game never ends. It's so stupid. My point is EXACTLY that. All that effort from the team, but catching the Snitch is really the only thing that makes a difference. So you could, for eg, just have a defence and lots of bludgers. That might work. But there is almost NO POINT in any team scoring goals, apart from the seeker catching the snitch.

That's why its clever IMO. If you're the seeker you need to keep track of how many points each team has. If the other team are 160 points up, and you see the snitch do you catch it and end the game, but lose. Or try and distract the other seeker so they can't catch it either?

It does mention in one of the books that the longest game on record lasted 3 months.

Catiette · 18/08/2025 14:32

InMyShowgirlEra · 18/08/2025 11:10

Cho Chang- (if you want to ignore the fact her name is racist we can do) but a sweet, intelligent Asian girl who cries all the time (we're clearly supposed to forget that her boyfriend just died and Harry jumped right on in there) and has no other character development.

Parvati Patil becomes absorbed by divination early on, seen even in the wizarding world as a nonsense and feeding into "mystical" Asian stereotypes, and Padma just disappears. In the books, they are at least "pretty", which seems to be the only descriptor they really get, but the film undoes that because no-one could be bothered to actually dress them properly and wanted to focus to stay on Hermione.

The Irish characters (Seamus Finnigan, but also Luna after the casting decision was made and signed off explicitly by JK)- one is an idiot who is always blowing something up, the other is a lovable eccentric who believes in a wide range of conspiracy theories and would be a tin-foil hat wearer in the muggle world.

There are very few characters explicitly identified as black in the books but we do have Dean Thomas who JK has said was black although he isn't defined as such in the UK version, which is a problem in itself. He's not too bright, always in trouble and hangs out with Seamus. His Dad left him.

And Kingsley Shacklebolt...do I really need to go into why that's problematic?

Fleur is hyper-sexualised and extremely passionate.

Lavender Brown was black in the film until the filmmakers realised she had some lines, then she was recast as white!

Don't get me started on the hook-nosed, money-obsessed goblins.

As an aside, JK Rowling has explicitly confirmed that lycanthropy was a metaphor for HIV/AIDS. Apparently, likening AIDS sufferers to people who turn into uncontrollable werewolves who attack people in the night was meant to REDUCE stigma.

And finally, if you ask me a question I will answer it but if you're replying to my posts just to insult me, then you are wasting your time as I won't respond to it.

To address your last line first, what on earth makes you think I'm just engaging to insult people. Please have a look at my posting history (and what makes this site different from the feral Twitter I typically avoid). With a wry smile, I find this line... well, rather insulting.

That aside - or not, as what follows does rely very much on our respective perceptions of what is "insulting"...

I can see some of your points, but not all. My view is that we should always be alert to the possibility of racism, but - particularly with the dilution of critical race theory by well-meaning but confused EDI activists - as a society we've somehow become vulnerable to all of the following errors of thinking:

  1. a clumsily awkward conflation of objective acknowledgement of legitimate difference with prejudice against that difference - returning to primary-school logic, in this context, a) could well be b), but needn't always be b) by definition.

  2. the presumption that adopting a feature of another culture is by definition appropriative and insulting - so-called "cultural appropriation"

  3. a terror of previously safely satirical stereotyping (as an entirely understandable and much-needed backlash against scarily recent and ongoing racist stereotyping)

  4. a presumption of offence

Cho Chang- (if you want to ignore the fact her name is racist we can do) but a sweet, intelligent Asian girl who cries all the time (we're clearly supposed to forget that her boyfriend just died and Harry jumped right on in there) and has no other character development.

I have no issue with this character, based on this. I'd say it falls under

Firstly, 1) recognisably Asian name - not definitively racist and secondly 3)&4) presumption of stereotyping on the basis that this character is Asian

I'd honestly say that I find your own assumption that Cho Chang crying is racist stereotyping more guilty of stereotyping than the character itself: you're the one presuming that a minor character's occasional appearances as a distressed love interest may be cynically perceived as in some way "representative" of a particular cultural tendency (I'm assuming diligent Asian schoolgirls? unsure...)

Parvati Patil becomes absorbed by divination early on, seen even in the wizarding world as a nonsense and feeding into "mystical" Asian stereotypes, and Padma just disappears. In the books, they are at least "pretty", which seems to be the only descriptor they really get, but the film undoes that because no-one could be bothered to actually dress them properly and wanted to focus to stay on Hermione.

As for my comment above.

The Irish characters (Seamus Finnigan, but also Luna after the casting decision was made and signed off explicitly by JK)- one is an idiot who is always blowing something up, the other is a lovable eccentric who believes in a wide range of conspiracy theories and would be a tin-foil hat wearer in the muggle world.

More with you on this one - always thought so. I felt the same way about Merry and Pippin in the the Lord of the Rings franchise (although, while this was far more extreme, I don't think Peter Jackson received the same condemnation?) The difference between this and the two examples above is, I think, that Seamus is erring on comic caricature. Although I also think I need to reread the books to avoid conflating them with the films in this respect.

There are very few characters explicitly identified as black in the books but we do have Dean Thomas who JK has said was black although he isn't defined as such in the UK version, which is a problem in itself. He's not too bright, always in trouble and hangs out with Seamus. His Dad left him.

I like the colour-blind nature of Hogwarts. I didn't really consider who may or may not be black. I can see the argument for making this more explicit, though. But how?

And Kingsley Shacklebolt...do I really need to go into why that's problematic?

Actually, yes – I'm not being facetious. Haven’t a clue what the issue is, whether because I don’t know my Potter well enough or I may not view there as being an issue.

Fleur is hyper-sexualised and extremely passionate.

OK - another caricature. But I think I'd put this under 3) and 4) on balance. I find it very sad that modern woke culture labels playful stereotyping of German and French culture as racist. There's a fine line, and it's nuanced as heck, but it's there. Remove it and we seek to remove something that's very necessary to our humanity and society: like it or not, we do seek membership of one group and enjoy mocking another. I think the issue is there there's a power imbalance, and there isn't between the British and French. Bring on the British character in French teen fiction called Le Bif Steck!

Lavender Brown was black in the film until the filmmakers realised she had some lines, then she was recast as white!

Tenuous as heck - this is, to me, very much 4), looking for offence. Be alert to the possibility,but don't presume without evidence. That would risk engaging in prejudice yourself.

Don't get me started on the hook-nosed, money-obsessed goblins.

This is one I want to look into more. My current impression is that it's an unevidenced bad-faith slur on Rowling that 1) conflates the films and her books (again, I'd ask for quotes from the books, esp. re. the goblins' appearance) & 2) disregards the entire mythology of the goblin, which may have been exploited for anti-semitic purposes at points because of certain coincicidental overlaps between prejudiced stereotypes and the goblin archetype, but wasn't originally such, to the best of my knowledge.

As an aside, JK Rowling has explicitly confirmed that lycanthropy was a metaphor for HIV/AIDS. Apparently, likening AIDS sufferers to people who turn into uncontrollable werewolves who attack people in the night was meant to REDUCE stigma.

I didn't know this. But are you seriously saying that you believe the character of Lupin could increase stigma against AIDs sufferers?! As with Cho Chang above, I actually find your attitude here, and the societal trends it reflects, somewhat disturbing. Yes, we need to be alert to and fight against injustice. But when doing so turns into dismissing someone else's well-intentioned attempt to do exactly the same as being in some way phobic, or taking metaphor too literally, as a result of your own assumptions and preconceptions, you're embarking on very dangerous path that, itself, risks blundering into bigotry. To come full circle, I think it risks leading to the point of view underlying your line asking me not to insult you - an unjustifed readiness to presume bad faith intent, presuming something wholly unfounded about an individual, presumably based on the forum on which I post.

That attitude is, I think, not reflective of the values you seek to uphold.

bigotry
noun [ U ]
the fact of having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life

Help - Codes

Help in understanding the labels and codes in Cambridge Dictionary

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/help/codes.html

Mmmnotsure · 18/08/2025 14:24

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 14:09

I believe women are women and trans women are trans women. I don't believe they should be excluded from society, but I believe they are trans women.

The work I have done, and continue to do, is to keep the women / female category solely for those born female. This isn't perfect, because as we know, not everyone who is 'assigned female at birth' is actually female. But full DNA testing isn't a possibility in youth and amateur sport. So we generally take people at their word, and only their birth certificate would ever be asked for as proof if there were any serious doubts. Anyone, regardless of gender or sex, is able to compete in an Open category.

Thank you for replying.

Do you believe trans women are male?

Re your involvement in sport, are you in the UK, because if so the percentage of people 'assigned female at birth' not being 'actually female' is so tiny I am surprised it is a consideration.

Now that a birth certificate can be reissued to show the opposite sex to the biological sex of the person holding it, how do you deal with that?

takealettermsjones · 18/08/2025 14:22

goldtrap · 18/08/2025 14:05

I know! That is my whole point! It's vanishingly impossible to score goals what with all the bludgers flying around. So you'd have to score 15 goals to just make it to 150 (15 x 10pt quaffles). Then the other team could have no goals but gets 150 for the Snitch and the game is over. Oh, but is the game over? Because then it's a tie. Or what if the snitch is never caught. The game never ends. It's so stupid. My point is EXACTLY that. All that effort from the team, but catching the Snitch is really the only thing that makes a difference. So you could, for eg, just have a defence and lots of bludgers. That might work. But there is almost NO POINT in any team scoring goals, apart from the seeker catching the snitch.

It's clearly not impossible to score goals, since lots of them are scored over the course of the books. And there is a point to the team scoring goals - the points determine the team's position in the league/cup.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 18/08/2025 14:20

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 14:09

I believe women are women and trans women are trans women. I don't believe they should be excluded from society, but I believe they are trans women.

The work I have done, and continue to do, is to keep the women / female category solely for those born female. This isn't perfect, because as we know, not everyone who is 'assigned female at birth' is actually female. But full DNA testing isn't a possibility in youth and amateur sport. So we generally take people at their word, and only their birth certificate would ever be asked for as proof if there were any serious doubts. Anyone, regardless of gender or sex, is able to compete in an Open category.

.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 18/08/2025 14:20

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 14:09

I believe women are women and trans women are trans women. I don't believe they should be excluded from society, but I believe they are trans women.

The work I have done, and continue to do, is to keep the women / female category solely for those born female. This isn't perfect, because as we know, not everyone who is 'assigned female at birth' is actually female. But full DNA testing isn't a possibility in youth and amateur sport. So we generally take people at their word, and only their birth certificate would ever be asked for as proof if there were any serious doubts. Anyone, regardless of gender or sex, is able to compete in an Open category.

Who is saying TW should be excluded from society? Expecting them to stay out of female single sex spaces, services and opportunities is not excluding them from society!

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 18/08/2025 14:18

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 13:55

Do you want me to share screen shots of whatsapp conversations between me and a friend? Or maybe emails between her and hers daughters school?

There is zero way for me to prove it. As I said, you are welcome to not believe me, as you are hell bent on doing. I shared an experience. You have chosen to call me a liar. Others may feel differently to you. I'm not spending any more time on this as there is nothing else I am comfortable showing you. She had an opportunity to reduce issues and shows not to. To me that shows she doesn't wish to protect a woman who has differing views to hers. And she didn't care about protecting her daughters either. That is the story. Nothing else I can say that I haven't already said.

I would like you to accept that anyone can say anything about a person on SM, and without proof I won’t believe it, that is my prerogative. You made an accusation about JKR, and in doing so you join a long line of angry people, mostly men, who simply cannot accept her statements on how the material reality of biological sex affects women and girls, and for whatever reason, have decided to interpret them as bigotry and hatred. No one is obliged to believe anything you say because you say they should. That isn’t disgusting or upsetting or any other hyperbolic word you care to choose, and no one is interested in seeing your WhatsApp messages or emails.

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 14:09

Mmmnotsure · 18/08/2025 14:03

@justteanbiscuits
Because clarity is important - especially in this area, around language - in order to understand other people's points of view, please could you explain something. One of your objections is that JKR "only wants to protect women who are in agreement with her".

In this thread you mention the work you do personally, supporting women. You say:

"Either all women matter or none do. I will continue work to support all women - whether they agree with my opinions or not. I don't pick and choose."

and also

"Go back and read my post where I explained what I do, rather than just sit at a keyboard, to support women's rights. To ensure fairness in sport when it comes to trans women."

If your stance is that trans women are women, then we may all be at cross purposes as to what your objection to JKR is, re her protecting women.

I would also be interested in how you approach your work "to ensure fairness in sport when it comes to trans women". Is that keeping trans women out of the female category in order to ensure fairness in sport for women? Or is it in providing opportunities for trans women to access sport in their own correct categories: ie providing more opportunities for mixed-sex sports, or helping to enable trans women to access men's sport in the male category?

[edited to include @ tea]

Edited

I believe women are women and trans women are trans women. I don't believe they should be excluded from society, but I believe they are trans women.

The work I have done, and continue to do, is to keep the women / female category solely for those born female. This isn't perfect, because as we know, not everyone who is 'assigned female at birth' is actually female. But full DNA testing isn't a possibility in youth and amateur sport. So we generally take people at their word, and only their birth certificate would ever be asked for as proof if there were any serious doubts. Anyone, regardless of gender or sex, is able to compete in an Open category.

illinivich · 18/08/2025 14:06

A while ago JKR tweeting something about only women menstruate, and lots of TRA decided to interpret that as only people who menstruate are female. Given JKR has been a girl, has been pregnant and is of menopause age, its obviously not what she thought at all.

But in their no debate forums, tra decided that this is what she said. And they used this as a way of attacking her.

The point is, TRA dont just not debate, they dont debate between themselves. So a few come up with a silly argument, and no-one else's can say its silly and dissuade them from using it as a gatcha.

Compare this with feminism where its (endless) debates. Women on here have no problem telling me my arguments are silly and i have the space to convince them or admit im wrong. Our ideas have therefore been examined and diacussed extensively.

I have no issue critique childrens books, the role of celebrity social media posts, and inflence the wealthy have, but that doesnt make any difference to the critiques of feminism and gender ideology. Its critising a person because they cant support an argument.

Also, if we do go down the path of using 'good' and 'bad' celebrities to justify ideological, do TRA think theyll be on the winning team?

goldtrap · 18/08/2025 14:05

PractisingMyTelekenipsis · 18/08/2025 13:53

Catching the snitch ends the game. It doesn't mean you win. That's the point.

I know! That is my whole point! It's vanishingly impossible to score goals what with all the bludgers flying around. So you'd have to score 15 goals to just make it to 150 (15 x 10pt quaffles). Then the other team could have no goals but gets 150 for the Snitch and the game is over. Oh, but is the game over? Because then it's a tie. Or what if the snitch is never caught. The game never ends. It's so stupid. My point is EXACTLY that. All that effort from the team, but catching the Snitch is really the only thing that makes a difference. So you could, for eg, just have a defence and lots of bludgers. That might work. But there is almost NO POINT in any team scoring goals, apart from the seeker catching the snitch.

Mmmnotsure · 18/08/2025 14:03

@justteanbiscuits
Because clarity is important - especially in this area, around language - in order to understand other people's points of view, please could you explain something. One of your objections is that JKR "only wants to protect women who are in agreement with her".

In this thread you mention the work you do personally, supporting women. You say:

"Either all women matter or none do. I will continue work to support all women - whether they agree with my opinions or not. I don't pick and choose."

and also

"Go back and read my post where I explained what I do, rather than just sit at a keyboard, to support women's rights. To ensure fairness in sport when it comes to trans women."

If your stance is that trans women are women, then we may all be at cross purposes as to what your objection to JKR is, re her protecting women.

I would also be interested in how you approach your work "to ensure fairness in sport when it comes to trans women". Is that keeping trans women out of the female category in order to ensure fairness in sport for women? Or is it in providing opportunities for trans women to access sport in their own correct categories: ie providing more opportunities for mixed-sex sports, or helping to enable trans women to access men's sport in the male category?

[edited to include @ tea]

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 13:55

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 18/08/2025 13:45

But we don’t know any teenager girls were bullied because you’ve shown us no proof, I’m sorry to bang on about it but why should we believe what you say without proof and when you clearly don’t like JKR so would like to see her discredited?

Do you want me to share screen shots of whatsapp conversations between me and a friend? Or maybe emails between her and hers daughters school?

There is zero way for me to prove it. As I said, you are welcome to not believe me, as you are hell bent on doing. I shared an experience. You have chosen to call me a liar. Others may feel differently to you. I'm not spending any more time on this as there is nothing else I am comfortable showing you. She had an opportunity to reduce issues and shows not to. To me that shows she doesn't wish to protect a woman who has differing views to hers. And she didn't care about protecting her daughters either. That is the story. Nothing else I can say that I haven't already said.

PractisingMyTelekenipsis · 18/08/2025 13:53

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 18/08/2025 13:29

Also, (and this is a hill I'm almost prepared to die on) - Quidditch makes NO SENSE. You go to all the effort with the bludgers etc and then the opposing team just have to get the Golden Snitch and suddenly it's game over. So what's the point of all the Quaffles? None! It's so stupid.

Oh my god, you really have spectacularly missed that that was the entire point! 🙈🙈🙈

Catching the snitch ends the game. It doesn't mean you win. That's the point.

UnpaintedLily · 18/08/2025 13:50

@CurlewKate
Why on earth would you actively encourage a pile-on directed at a woman who has long been the target of abuse on social media, widespread critical coverage in reputable mainstream media (including the Dutch ‘newspaper of record’) and threats of violence?

If you want to read reasoned criticism of Rowling’s books, other writing, use of social media or activism do an internet search.

Asking an unrepresentative sample of users of social media to explain their global, non-specific negative verdict (‘awful’) on a woman they're vanishingly unlikely to have interacted with, much less know well, is either stupid or deliberately provocative. It certainly has no place on an ostensibly feminist corner of social media.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 18/08/2025 13:46

C95 · 18/08/2025 10:00

115 posts and not one thread of evidence of her "anti-trans".

Plenty of evidence of the amazing charity work she funds.

I completely understand the OPs reason for thread. And reading the replies just confirms how uninformed TRAs.

But if we have to post a negative comment, I would say I really don't like her baiting India. I wish she would just grey rock him.

Every time she posts about him he gets more publicity. Let him just disappear into obscurity. Pleeeeeeese.

But if we have to post a negative comment, I would say I really don't like her baiting India. I wish she would just grey rock him.
Every time she posts about him he gets more publicity. Let him just disappear into obscurity. Pleeeeeeese.

She ignored him for years and sadly he didn’t STFU and go away. If she went back to ignoring him he would just get angrier and angrier but at least he wouldn’t be able to make money from the traffic her engagement brings him.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 18/08/2025 13:45

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 13:36

Yes thank you. I am quite sure this happened.

But I'm thrilled that quizzing me on this is more important than a group of adults causing teenage girls to be bullied. Which was my point. You see it across all areas at the moment - "we're just protecting the women" but actually, they're not. They want to protect some women, but not all of them.

But we don’t know any teenager girls were bullied because you’ve shown us no proof, I’m sorry to bang on about it but why should we believe what you say without proof and when you clearly don’t like JKR so would like to see her discredited?

SternJoyousBeev2 · 18/08/2025 13:45

C95 · 18/08/2025 10:00

115 posts and not one thread of evidence of her "anti-trans".

Plenty of evidence of the amazing charity work she funds.

I completely understand the OPs reason for thread. And reading the replies just confirms how uninformed TRAs.

But if we have to post a negative comment, I would say I really don't like her baiting India. I wish she would just grey rock him.

Every time she posts about him he gets more publicity. Let him just disappear into obscurity. Pleeeeeeese.

But if we have to post a negative comment, I would say I really don't like her baiting India. I wish she would just grey rock him.
Every time she posts about him he gets more publicity. Let him just disappear into obscurity. Pleeeeeeese.

She ignored him for years and sadly he didn’t STFU and go away. If she went back to ignoring him he would just get angrier and angrier but at least he wouldn’t be able to make money from the traffic her engagement brings him.

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 18/08/2025 13:43

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 18/08/2025 13:16

Are these supposed to be bad things she's done?! 🤔

Setting up a rape crisis centre. What a baddie she is. /s

P.s. Maya won her case because her views and the expression of the are WORIADS. HTH

That's right: they were the worst things I could find, plus what TRAs said about them. It's a pitiful haul, and confirms my suspicion that the real problem for TRAs is people who don't believe in their magical bullshit

There's no space at all for a live-and-let-live interpretation where we let them do their thing and they in return accept that sometimes sex does matter, and children should be kept out of it.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 18/08/2025 13:42

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 13:20

Trying again with the image.

What does this prove?