This thread is specifically for people who think JK Rowling is awful so..

I gave the example of my friend and her daughters. Read back.

So at what point do trans identifying men stop being just men and become TIM? When they buy a lipstick and a pair of tights? When they buy a bra and stuff it with socks, or do they have to have bra filling surgery? What if they don’t have surgery and their trans identity remains cosmetic, does that count? If it is just a question of “I am what I say I am” why can’t we say no, actually you are still genetically a man, dress how you want, call yourself what you want but you really can’t go against the binary sexual arrangements that every other mammalian species and most other plant and animal species use on our planet just because you have a feeling which is more likely to either be a manifestation of your latent homosexuality or a product of some form of dysmorphic mental illness such as for example we readily accept is the case for anorexia. We really cannot have a society where to mollify a tiny proportion of disordered men other men, with adverse intentions, are as a by product of “kindness” given free access to vulnerable women and girls.

And btw people aren’t “assigned” a sex at birth, sex is observed using the very useful physical clues nature has provided. Sometimes, if there has been some sort of chromosomal glitch, and the child is unfortunate enough to be born in a country where medical provision is limited , and additionally the social stigma of a child felt to have a physical anomaly is very oppressive, a decision might be made which later proves to have been unwise, Caster Semanya and the Algerian boxer are unfortunate examples. But these are rare, and do not actually affect a human beings chromosomal identity of being male or female.

DNA testing in youth and most amateur sport should as you say be unnecessary, especially since once again there are usually sufficient physical markers which identify sex - especially in males post puberty - and which should be enough to make it clear whether an athlete should be competing in open or sexed classes. When it does become necessary, and should be obligatory, is when those very clear physical markers are ignored or deliberately fudged in order to obtain advantage in professional sport. This could be sorted by making a simple, universally accepted mouth swab test being obligatory for all professional athletes and sportspeople.

"It's not as if she sits quietly thinking thoughts about trans issues, which may or may not be transphobic."

Exactly.

You might not like the way she expresses herself or disagree with the substance, but she really isn't hiding her opinions.

I'm not trying to bait you. It's obvious. You basically said that trans women are not like women in all the situations where sex is relevant.

But you literally do? Everything you believe points to you not accepting that they're women in any real, meaningful way, which only leaves men. You can dress it up by calling them transwomen, but that's just another way of saying men.

Which women is jk not wanting to protect?

I feel that so many of the anti-JKR replies here are precisely described in The Bewilderness’s Rules of Misogyny - particularly 2, 3 and 14. Just more rehashing of the expectation that women should appease be kind to men 🤪🙄

Yes. It's quite clear that you believe trans women are men.

I have zero idea what you are talking about. You seem to think you've reached some amazing realisation. You keep saying I can't bring myself to say "trans women are women".. You just aren't making any sense.

I have held these views for a number of years. I am not having any gender awakening. I have known and cared about trans people for 30 years or more.

I said what I believe. Do not try and turn it into more than it is.

Sorry, when? His back ground is in football hooliganism and fraud. I'm not sure when he decided he could monetise racism, but he has never hidden it, and it's pretty easy to find evidence that he is a criminal thug.

Does it perhaps occur to you that his fans are not particularly bright?

Yes but none of his supporters are in a position to offer £1 million reward money, so that would be a completely empty offer.

Whereas for JKR it's pocket change.

But equally, it means no one has any reason to say she is either, no? You can't just magically intuit that someone is racist or transphobic or hates dogs just because when they've literally never said anything that would suggest they are.

Surely she is on record as having said enough about trans issues for you to have an opinion on whether she is transphobic or not?

It's not as if she sits quietly thinking thoughts about trans issues, which may or may not be transphobic.

Her detractors are objecting to the comments she has made in writing, in a public space, over a period of almost 6 years. And yet they cannot quote a single one of those comments and give a coherent explanation as to why it is transphobic.

I genuinely do think it would have been unclaimed in the period I remember his supporters using that line.

As I said, for the longest time, it was a defence used by his fans. Because it was. It would hold no water now.

No. I have no idea if she's transphobic, so I'm not making any claims to that effect.

Just that lack of written evidence in no way proves that she isn't transphobic.

And no, I'm not thought policing her either. I really don't care if she's transphobic or not.

Yes I think it probably is these days. He's stopped being so careful. But I can distinctly remember seeing the same 'SHOW ME HE'S RACIST' demands online and googling thinking, how hard can it be, and not finding anything.

He also indignantly claimed that he wasn't racist or anti-Muslim at his libel trial.

To be crystal clear, I'm not lumping JK Rowling in anything like the same pot as Tommy Robinson. But I don't think that the repetitive, triumphant demands for proof she's a transphobe are the 'gotcha' that people think they are. She might be a transphobe. She might not be. But she's definitely not stupid.

It’s the thought police.

Right, but the most difficulty we have in responding to such a stupid comment is deciding which of the thousands of very racist things Yaxley-Lennon is on record as having said to quote first.

JK Rowling's detractors literally cannot find one transphobic thing she has said to quote.

Do you really think a £1m reward for finding a racist quote by Yaxley-Lennon would ever have been offered, much less sit unclaimed for years?

I used to think everyone knew their sex, but when even a male doctor states he's a biological woman under oath, you have to wonder...

That isn’t what you did though is it? You made an accusation about JKR, which you couldn’t substantiate, and when asked for proof of it you became abusive, angry and defensive, and made some extraordinary comments to me in particular, does the word disgusting ring any bells? How else do you explain some of your posts being deleted by @MNHQ ?

Do you think trans men don't know that their sex is female?

'Woman' should be a completely gender neutral word. You no more have to identify with being a woman than you have to identify with having an elbow or a blood type.

Why is it helpful to assert that 'woman' has to be attached to a specific identity, moreover one that is linked to women's oppression?

It's hardly a lame defence to ask for the evidence of something of which a person is accused.

Yes, people will argue the stuff he's said is not racist, but the stuff can actually be produced and debated as to whether it is racist or not. I don't think anyone's produced any evidence for us to debate about JK's transphobia at all. That's the difference.