TRAs appropriate "Safe Spaces" phrase

You are correct that trans rights activists appropriate everything and often get a kick out of the outrageous reversal of reality to portray them as the victim and the real victim is the offender (DARVO) , which is something common to cluster B personality disorders such as NPD. But I don’t think this is a particularly egregious use of the phrase here based on how they see things, it’s generally just hyperbole anyway. I also don’t think they used it because of Keir Starmer.

So it’s you who is missing the point.

It was a phrase in public use, people literally took the piss out of it all the time.

I’m not sure the British public were hanging on Keir Starmer’s every word about it either. Yes I think it was an attempt to use an activist buzzword to avoid committing himself on the issue either way, and allowing people to interpret the law as it then stood in a way favourable to the message the government wanted to send, which was broadly “inclusive” without directly supporting what trans rights activists wanted, ie self ID.

I agree. I was well aware of the concept of “safe spaces” well before the trans issue took hold and before I started using this board. Its use was rife in lefty politics and university culture. Perhaps the British public at large are less aware of its significance but I do wish KS and other politicians would be challenged on it whenever they say it. It’s even more important to challenge if TRAs think it’s a way to circumnavigate the law (which presumably is why KS started using it as a term in the first place)

It also made PMQs (Theresa May) and South Parks.

No, the term “safe spaces” did not only make the mainstream media when Labour started using it to fudge their intentions. You are simply wrong.

(1) The term ‘psychologically safe space’ was originally used to refer to the psychological environment that supports high performance, innovation and learning. They were defined as spaces where people feel free to speak up with ideas, questions or concerns without fear of punishment or embarrassment.

(2) Spaces designed to provide a refuge from judgement, criticism and uncomfortable thoughts and feelings get called ‘safe spaces’. These conditions align with conditions created for the purpose of respite and healing.

(3) ‘Safe spaces’ can refer spaces where steps are taken to minimise physical harm.

Each of these can exist in isolation. 1 and 3 can be paired, as can 2 and 3. 1 and 3 conflict.

When ‘safe space’ is thrown into the mix, I always ask for clarification. People often state all 3 purposes, and I point out that 1 and 2 conflict. They tend not to like this, especially when 1 is highlighted as reflective of psychological safety. People often operate under the misguided assumption that psychological wellbeing is supported under conditions of 2.

A paradox then. Anywhere that’s marked a ‘safe space’ on these terms is likely to be unsafe for women.

Yes, ‘safe spaces’ had been appropriated in the ‘public discourse’ in the U.K. years ago by the deplatformers etc, including transactivists but also other groups eg antisemitic. It’s become a banal ‘snowflake’ phrase - imo at this point the transactivists are welcome to it, but we need to push for clarity and the use of ‘single sex facility/service’.

I remember in the Bailey tribunal there was a TRA who said the building (Garden Court Chambers) wouldn’t be “safe” for a planned TRA group meeting with her there. As if they were at physical risk from Allison Bailey in a legal office.

As people with dysphoria can be either sex, does this mean they are campaigning for unisex facilities separate from single sex facilities to help them to feel safe?
Do people with dysphoria trust all others who say they have dysphoria and want to only share facilities with those with the same condition?
(Surely some will have dysphoria, some will be making it up, how can they tell?)

Exactly.

You might not have been aware of it then @IwantToRetire but I was, and it was partly what was so insidious about Labour’s more recent use of it as a way to avoid saying single sex spaces. So no, the TRA group isn’t necessarily “appropriating” they are using it in the same hyperbolic sense.

The term “safe spaces” is much broader than the use Labour made of it. It comes from American “social justice” discourse. It was already being used in the sense of discourse rather than actual safety and had been for years when Labour started to misuse it.

https://thepeerreview-iwca.org/issues/braver-spaces/braver-spaces-vs-safe-spaces-for-lgbtq-in-the-writing-center-theory-and-practice-at-the-university-of-kansas/#:~:text=The%20dichotomy%20between%20safe%20space,at%20a%20larger%20global%20level.

Something else they want to make all about them.

Kier Starmer kept using this annoying, patronising term during the election campaign and he was legally inaccurate. Single Sex Spaces not Safe Spaces.

Yes, one of the more egregious areas of misuse was uni events where ‘safe space’ seemed to equate to ‘being shielded from being exposed to different opinions’. Fortunately the idea that free speech and challenging ideas are kinda vital in unis is reasserting itself.

We should absolutely encourage ‘safe spaces’ to be available for trans people, so they don’t feel they can use the single sex spaces which the rest of us find convenient. Trans allies can use the ‘safe spaces’ too, to help them stay safe <feel I may have missed the point 😆>

As pp said “safe spaces” was a fashionable buzzword before trans hit the mainstream and before the Labour Party started to use it as a fudge for single sex spaces. It goes along with feeling “unsafe” when someone disagrees with you. It was quite disingenuous of Labour to use it for this meaning. The sex fudge that they favoured pre SC ruling.

Yes like businesses give a shite either way mostly.

it was a PR virtue signalling opportunity, that is going out of fashion.

And add the risk of losing insurance and potential litigation this is not going to gain traction with business's large and small.

personally never expected the SC ruling would be an overnight sea change.

But i am happy to wager that this time next year we will see a significant shift.

More than happy for them to have ‘safe spaces’ as long as TW stay out of our single sex spaces

The use of ‘safe spaces’ as opposed to ‘single sex’ was of course entirely deliberate because everyone should be safe.