Drag Queen on Strictly

Yes, it is all messed up.
I don't think it's an issue with men who are gay being sexist or misogynistic, as many men regardless of sexuality wouldn't dream of mocking women.
Some TRAs/MRAs are unfairly trying to pull all gay men into the discussion (as though they are one group with no voice).
Leave gay men alone and leave women alone is my message to those posters.

Their homophobia is bizarre. They are saying that gay males are misogynistic and that their misogyny is ok as long as they're gay. The racism, homophobia, femphobia and intolerance from these MRAs has to be seen to be believed! Fancy thinking because a man is gay that means his misogyny is ok?

The ignorance and lack of English comprehension of the Toxic Masculinity cohort is unbelievable. Who said anything about being gay? FFS. He is MALE!!! No one gives a flying fluck if he is gay or straight or in between. Or nothing. As I said jusst above, "They can be trans, non-trans, binary, half-binary, non-binary, hetrosexual, homosexual, non-sexual, ever-sexual, metrosexual. A male is a male is a male, and just because a male"

Misogyny is misogyny is misogyny. Whether the male is gay or straight. Being gay is NOT a free pass to be misogynistic, so don't pull that. Being gay has nothing to do with being misogynistic, but once again, we have people showing their homophobia.

Its very simple, women shouldn't be mocked.
Not a little bit, not a lot, not by gay men, not by straight men.
It doesn't stop men being included as males so there's no intolerance of males being male (whatever their sexuality).

Fucking hell the ignorance and intolerance is so funny. If you think the threat to women is gay men, from a community that is immensely supportive to women, doing drag which is a wildly over the top portrayal of a very stereotypical type of femininity then you are totally mental and very sheltered

Fucking hell the ignorance and intolerance is so funny. If you think the threat to women is gay men, from a community that is immensely supportive to women, doing drag which is a wildly over the top portrayal of a very stereotypical type of femininity then you are totally mental and very sheltered

I thought engaging in this thread would be ok because it's not about trans

If you thought engaging in a feminist thread would be ok "because it's not about trans" then that shows you don't get it at all. We are against MALES mocking women. Whether they are trans or not, is irrelevant. They can be trans, non-trans, binary, half-binary, non-binary, hetrosexual, homosexual, non-sexual, ever-sexual, metrosexual. A male is a male is a male, and just because a male isn't trans doesn't mean their misogyny is acceptable to us.

If you thought our issue was trans and only trans, this shows you have no idea whatsoever what we're about. Trans has never been relevant per se. This issue has always been MALES. This thread should finally make you understand that. Any male that mocks women is wrong. Being trans or non-trans has never been the issue and you severely misjudged us and did not 'get it' if that's what you thought. We call misogyny out wherever we see it. The gender identity of that male is totally irrelevant. Do you get it now?

Yes, the MRAs are so transparent in their attempt to get not just women but women of colour silenced. How dare we defend womens rights and not be on our knees for the patriarchy. Don't we know we women are just shit under the shoe of Anne Abortion and Miss Carriage?

If you fighting against men who mock women is 'toxic', then the misogynistic agenda here from a few posters is incredibly clear. We're against males mocking females. Males. That should be the clue to you that our problem is males. But no, you still don't get it. Anyone defending womanface needs to ask themselves some hard questions. That, is Toxic Masculinity. And it should not be defended on a feminist site. There are plenty of Mens Rights sites that attitude can be championed on.

Women, know your place, stop having opinions about men who try to be you!
Perhaps some moderators can come along to silence you... no, thought not.
Women haven't been silenced in the UK hurrah!

I am not attacking anyone, I am responding to posts. I suggest you stop attacking me. Calling feminism 'toxic' really says so much about you and your agenda. And how about you try supporting women, for once, instead of attacking us.

Enjoying men pretending to be caricatures of women is pretty stupid, tbh.

Pointing that out isn't misogynistic, though.

Never have a Drag King do they

Couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately the feminism here is incredibly toxic and puts many posters off. I thought engaging in this thread would be ok because it's not about trans people and all the bile that gets spewed about them but no, they're all vile here too!

If this is what people call feminism these days I want nothing to do with it.

As far as I am aware in my long experience of dance, there are only two classical ballets in which female characters are played by male artists, one is Cinderella, and the other is La Fille Mal Gardee. The roles are what one would describe as pantomime dames and ugly sisters.

There is of course Les Ballets Trockadero de Monte Carlo, a phenomenally good comic ballet company parodying the usual conventions.

Those examples are not representative of the art of classical ballet as a whole.

Agree. I guess she'd never seen a really good ballet production.

'You're not making fun of it, you're making fun out of it' – well, I'd say that about (to invoke her again) Lily Savage, but not so much Cheryl Hole, for example. Drag can be and has been one thing, but it is undeniable that it's changed and evolved, and not in a good way IMO.

Oh yes it is.

Sorry, thought we were doing panto now.

"High Camp is the whole emotional basis for ballet, for example"

Oh no it isn't.

Lesbians are not women impersonators. That's a daft comparison to a man in womanface.

I can’t get upset about this. Strictly contestants come from the whole range of backgrounds and Drag performers are as showbiz as the other celebs. It’s not a children’s show. It’s a bit fringe to worry about this person taking a spot from a woman, I don’t think this show insists on equal numbers of male and female participants.

I am requesting that @ThatBlackCat and others stop attacking other women here. This is the most toxic ‘feminism’ I have ever come across and the personal abuse in shameful.I hope Mumsnet take note and act to protect the integrity of this site which I always thought was women supporting other women.