Nottingham Die-In on 16 August

Agreed. Very interesting and useful.

That’s a really informative post, @Keeptoiletssafe. Thank you.

Wearers of Lucy and Yak dungarees remind me of Georgia Tennant and her "You are loved" Instagram posts about trans kids <rolls eyes>

Regarding preventing deaths in toilets:

The people most likely to die in toilets are those who have medical problems (11% of cardiac arrests are on the loo), drug users and people who want to end their lives.

The biggest way to prevent more people dying in toilets is not to have gender neutral or mixed sex toilets and for everyone to stick to the toilet for their sex. In that way, toilets designs can get back to having door gaps.
Then anyone at their most vulnerable has the best chance of being rescued because they will be seen through the door gaps that are allowed in single sex toilets when there’s a single sex area in front of them. I know because that’s how I saved a young woman who I saw had collapsed in her cubicle as soon as I entered the ladies. In two recent more publicised events of toilet deaths outside the home, one man was found after 6 days and one woman after 3 days. No one knew they were there.

Privacy is why a lot of deaths (and assaults) happen in disabled toilets too. Children are led into these toilets, women are pushed back into them. Thats why there should be an exemption for children to go into single sex toilets of the sex of their carer.

For a death risk example, a quote from academic US research: ‘Public restrooms are often used as drug consumption sites because of the privacy they offer. However, it is this inherent privacy, especially with single-user restrooms, that invites solitary consumption. And that is also what makes it so dangerous: With no one nearby to call for emergency assistance or administer naloxone, individuals are at a higher risk for death should an overdose occur.’

What should happen is there should be single sex accessible (disabled) toilets so these toilets have the same benefits of single sex design.

If there is really no way someone wants to use a toilet with male or female on it then the mixed sex toilet should be really closely monitored. In my research, this isn’t practical and isn’t liked. But it is why it ‘works’ better (say) in a cafe that has only one toilet space available.

I started looking at toilet safety because of the risks of medically vulnerable people dying in toilets that were private designs. These private designs are said to be ‘inclusive’ and have their origins to transactivists in New York nightclubs. This is not transphobic, it’s just facts that anyone can look up and I have worked back to from researching toilet safety for the last few years. It’s also not anti-men to say that men like having sex in toilets more than women. In fact, it was argued in Parliament it was discrimination against men to make it illegal to have sex in a public toilet (it has been since 2003). It’s not anti-sex to say the conditions that make a toilet cubicle good to have consensual sex in are the conditions that non-consensual sex will happen in (read Rod Liddle’s account of the BBC toilets in the Spectator).

Privacy comes at the cost of health and safety for all at our most vulnerable. It also comes at a cost for any provision at all: the more toilets are misused, the more they cost to maintain and the more likely there are to be shut. It even stops people using an area (such as shops) at all as the area gets a reputation and the ‘good people’ avoid it.

What you think you want and what you need can be two different things.

I have written a lengthy post because I hope the group will look at it and start thinking about what they need. I think it should be their safety (and health). If they really want to be radical and campaign for mixed sex toilets to have door gaps in them to be as safe as the single sex designs then I can help with my research. I am happy to discuss. But I don’t think society is really ready for that. It’s going against building regs too.

Lucy and Yak!!!!! Oh yes, natural home of the most marginalised in society!😆

I think I've missed the point of this protest.

Why are trans people dying?

I saw them at The Riverside in 1990! Great gig.

Yes they do have the same human rights as everyone else but they want extra rights and to remove the rights of women.

🤣🤣🤣

People who wear Lucy and Yak are just the sort to hold luxury beliefs

And weirdly enough every culture has the same definition for millennia 🤷🏼‍♀️

Lucy and Yak oh dear

You couldn’t pay me to look like an overfed toddler who’s rifled through her / his / they / them’s nan’s wardrobe from the early 70s so not much lost there.

There’s already signs up in some shops and restaurants in Nottingham saying they won’t adhere to single sex toilets and changing rooms. There’s one in the window of Lucy and Yak.

There was the notorious “non men” of the Green Party.

I’ve heard ‘women & marginalised genders’

The slogan "trans rights are human rights" is used because, last century, "Women's rights are human rights" was a phrased activists used.
And this is a movement that is nothing but an ersatz pastiche of previous human rights movements.
Ironically enough, the point of the phrase "Women's rights are human rights" is to highlight the difference between women's rights and minority rights.
(It's not that minority rights don't matter - just that women aren't a minority and we only seemed like a minority because we were so excluded from the public conversation - I don't know if that holds true so much any more - you'd hear (male) politicians use phrases like "women and other minorities" back in the day).

Here is a link to an archive version of the Pink News article for those who don't want to give them the clicks.

https://archive.ph/d5C76

I think it may also just be other people drawn in to show solidarity? There is so much scaremongering that if you allow trans 'rights' to be challenged then other rights will be attacked next, and people who are vulnerable in one way or another may be motivated to #bekind to the MOST VULNERABLE GROUP IN SOCIETY.

Re radar keys, I was on the staff accommodation committee at work which dealt with allocting offices, PhD and researcher desks, lab space etc. One recurring item was the contant state of the ladies bogs, which were used by students and staff in our department. One bright idea, suggested by a gay man, was to give all female staff a radar key for the one disabled cubicle. He couldn't see why the rest of us didn't think this was a solution.

Just been taking a good look at the photo. Just - wow. When there are children in various parts of the world dying of starvation or being shot at while queuing for bags of flour when they’re starving or body bags of entire family members being lined up outside hospitals - ACTUAL DEAD PEOPLE AND CHILDREN - this is one hell of a sick stunt pulled by the most narcissistic group of young people imaginable. Gobsmacked/sickened.

Dozens. So at least 24 people.

So very moving. I am underwhelmed, sorry, overwhelmed.

These days you can almost guarantee that anyone wearing a face mask in public is a trans supporter whose commitment to the cause doesn’t include being identified.

I noticed the number of wheelchairs - I counted six and one walking stick user. The intersection between disabled people and trans people does seem to be quite wide. Are they vulnerable because they are trans, or are they trans because they are vulnerable?

I should imagine there was quite a lot of performative whinging about how they're all victims being genocided, or some such.

Mine too.