Sturgeon accuses JK of toxic trans debate

Who is this us? You have no idea what my thoughts are. You're creating an argument where there isn't one to be had. I dont think it's particularly eloquent or intelligent to insult someone via a tshirt is all. JKR has done amazing things to my local environment and I appreciate her written work hugely. I also fully appreciate many of her views. Please don't say that just because I dont like one thing she has done that I'm putting myself against anyone. However I agree that cutely hilarious would be an amazing tshirt and we should totally get them made!

'cutely hilarious' is such a TRA phrase.

'I'm defending neither of them.' Really? You're definitely only criticising one of them.

Aaron95
People can say "fuck off" all they want but it just further validates the point that it is not possible to hold any sort of rational debate on this topic. I'm not agreeing with Sturgeon's view on genderbut I do think she is right that it is no longer possible to discuss in a rational manner.

In so many threads here I can see woman after woman rationally discussing this topic; the only irrationality I find is on the part of those who turn up to say (over and over and over again, often in exactly the words they used before) that JKRowling has written something which she provably did not actually write, or that something did not happen which quite clearly did happen, and call anything which does not agree with their view "LIES", sometimes in bold and sometimes with exclamation marks.

I'd regard that as neither rational nor debate, but the scads of woman reasoning and debating here do tend not to froth at the keyboard like that. I know that it is possible to discuss gender matters in a rational manner, because it is happening all the time before my very eyes.

Glad you are enjoying the laughs. Maybe Mumsnet should do the Fringe next year?

Short article in Spiked

https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/08/12/no-nicola-sturgeon-isla-bryson-was-never-a-woman/

Which got me thinking. If anyone who commits the most heinous male crime against women probably forfeits the right to be… the gender of their choice, doesn't that mean that men who rape who don't identify as women actually lose the right to a male identity and therefore have to be transwomen? Which if the GRR hadn't been blocked and the SC weren't all terfy means they'd have to go in women's prisons.

Or possibly Sturgeon hasn't really thought it through.

Hamish Morrison AT HMorrison97
Straightforwardly incorrect claim from Nicola Sturgeon’s new book
Picture saying that more women were elected to the Scottish Parliament in 1999 than had been to the commons ever since 1918.

Another one. Did anyone proofread this?
Picture underlining it saying Mhairi Black was the youngest ever MP elected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_members_of_the_House_of_Commons_of_the_United_Kingdom

Quick count (might be slightly wrong).

1918 - 1933
33 women MPs

1935 - 1945
23 women MPs

1950 - 1965
26 women MPs

1965 - 1983
32 women MPs

1983 - 1997
58 women MPs

This makes 172.

There were 129 seats in total in the 1999 Scottish Parliamentary Election.

When elected in May 2015, she was 20 years, 7 months and 25 days old, making her the youngest MP elected to the House of Commons since the Reform Act 1832, the previous record having been held by William Wentworth-Fitzwilliam, who was 20 years and 11 months old when elected in 1832.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mhairi_Black

When the picture building is that 'recollections may vary', this type of error doesn't help your credibility.

Best place to freeload.

(Checks notes)

sorry, "Best place to offload empty Calor bottles."

You think I'm cute

Of course! Motorhome travels / Best motorhome tours of wherever / campsites

And ‘cutely hilarious’ really ??

is it because we wear skirts and lipstick @Gofaster2023

are men ‘cutely hilarious’?

Nicola could have done boats/ferries.

Round my head in a motorhome.

She went down a political path and didn’t take the voting public with her.

Remember it was a no-debate debate as she had already decided and wasn’t even interested in female smps putting forward questions. Didn’t Nicola and her cabal disapprove of suffragette colours being worn?

She let us down big time, and I mean women across our nations.

Gosh you didn't even manage four lines without accusing us of hatred, taking cheap shots and telling us we are cutely hilarious!

You wouldn't get far in a 'reasoned debate' , would you?🙄

Actually on reflection I quite like the idea of being called 'cutely hilarious'.
On a T-shirt, size M please.

I want an interviewer to ask her which groups she would describe as anti trans and if she won't say I want them to name specific groups such as FWS, Sex Matters etc and ask her are they anti trans

Michel Portillo has done a grand job on trains.

Nicola could have done boats/ferries.

Yes North London could be her spot with political and media luvvies. Maybe with an allotment next to Jeremy.

Once again the tone police have turned up.

Why did it need to be 'classy'?

It was a political protest. It wasn't a threat. It wasn't abusive. It made the point very well about how women actually felt and thought was happening and who was responsible.

Can't swear? Can't make a protest that isn't 'classy' enough?

JKRowling made the point before about the class issue at the heart of this debate and here we see snobbery again about HOW it is legitimate to disagree and how its not legitimate based on tone and class.

Once again, this seems to reinforce 'the lanyard class' argument.

Odd isn't it?

P.S. I don't think women hate Sturgeon. Disappointed, betrayed, angry at, gaslit. It is legitimate to feel all these things...

Tbf, by that point a lot of people on one side had tried reasoned debate and realised that it was simply impossible because, well, because the other side constantly said, "no debate". Desperate times call for desperate measures...

And as for the 'such mean gloating', 'toxic on both sides', 'you nasty ladies, you can't say fuck off' - honestly, get tae.

We were told by our elected First Minister that our views on the GRR were 'not valid' when they very much were valid as confirmed by subsequent events.

We tried to point out the obvious issues and were told, again and again, to shut up.

So aye, get tae. Take your handwringing 'be kind' shite and get tae the far side of fuck.

Ffs. I remember a side in this argument had posters that said Trans Women are Women #nodebate. And it wasn’t the GC side

i remember Grace Lavery backing out of a debate with Helen Joyce

i remember trans activists refusing to be involved in debates on women’s hour, and instead having pre recorded interviews.

suggesting it is the GC side who refuse to debate is showing more neck than a fecking girafe.

Well that's us told, isn't it? I'm sure we all feel suitably chastised.

I am hopeful that a Scottish journalist will. They seem to be the only journalists that who are now open to questioning trans ideology, but they have had years of Nicola and the SNP bullying the, so it’s gloves off time

Sad times Nicola

Jeepers!

I knew people wrote terrible poems about Jeremy Corbyn, but I kind of put that down to the Corbyn fan demographic.

I mean. It was hardly classy of JKR to wear a tahirt slagging her off, was it? Hardly the height of reasoned debate. I'm defending neither of them, but a lot of you hate Sturgeon, take cheap shots and then somehow think you've the upper hand and are cutely hilarious.

That product description has reminded me of a shite poem some rando (I have my suspicions) wrote in praise of Sturgeon. It's hilariously fawning.

Craig Murray AT CraigMurrayOrg
This is a total lie. My friend Gordon Wilson unfortunately opposed gay marriage, and he argued vigorously with Alex about it. Alex absolutely supported gay marriage. Sturgeon is spreading utter lies to try to take the credit for herself.