Page 32 | Misinformation correction: M&S Staff

BeeSourianteAgain · 2025-08-08T13:03:46+00:00

M&S have responded to people's enquiries, here's one: [[https://bsky.app/profile/dpdormouse.bsky.social/post/3lvuzitrplc2f https://bsky.app/profile/dpdormouse.bsky.social/post/3lvuzitrplc2f]] As expected the staff member was just doing their job, something that happens thousands of times a day in shops all over the country. As per normal, the trans panic was manufactured. I fully expect all the GCs and media pundits who were pushing all sorts of hate to apologise, but as a person on their second LGBTQ moral panic I know very well how it goes.

DeanElderberry · 09/08/2025 07:33

The two start points of this story are:

Adult males should not accost young teenagers.

One of M&S's good points is that its staff do not accost customers of any age.

Which should have added up to making the mother's feeling that taking her young daughter there for her awkward first bra purchase (not fitting, purchase, 'find your way around the sizing and styling parameters' time) was a good safeguarding choice.

But an opportunist male decided that he was entitled to cross normal societal boundaries (the two listed above) because he had adopted a gender identity.

SardinesOnGingerbread · 09/08/2025 07:33

TheLudditesWereRight · 09/08/2025 07:13

OP I am broadly GC but I agree that this is really heading down a slippery slope of trans people not being allowed to do normal everyday jobs in public.

Out of interest, which part of you is broadly GC? Because it doesn't seem to be your writing hand.

AnSolas · 09/08/2025 07:31

TheLudditesWereRight · 09/08/2025 07:13

OP I am broadly GC but I agree that this is really heading down a slippery slope of trans people not being allowed to do normal everyday jobs in public.

When is it normal to have a male try to sell underwear to teen girls?

In the UK children are even taught the PANTS rules.

Privates are private
Always remember your body belongs to you
No means no
Talk about secrets that upset you
Speak up, someone can help

Helleofabore · 09/08/2025 07:30

DeanElderberry · 09/08/2025 07:27

IT'S GOT EARS ON TOP OF ITS HEAD THAT IS A CAT TRAIT

😁

Don’t let us also forget Teal’s excellent contribution yesterday that apparently plastic surgery is so good that there is no difference between a surgical cavity inserted into the groin of a male person and a vagina. So those male people become ‘female people’ instantly.

DeanElderberry · 09/08/2025 07:27

IT'S GOT EARS ON TOP OF ITS HEAD THAT IS A CAT TRAIT

myplace · 09/08/2025 07:24

TheLudditesWereRight · 09/08/2025 07:13

OP I am broadly GC but I agree that this is really heading down a slippery slope of trans people not being allowed to do normal everyday jobs in public.

Forget trans. It’s not the everyday job of anyone in M&S to approach lone girls in the lingerie section.

It’s particularly outside the responsibility of someone who doesn’t work in that department.

Add in that the staff person is male and it shoots right up to red flag parade.

TheUnusuallyQuerulentMxLauraBrown · 09/08/2025 07:22

sadmillenial · 09/08/2025 07:02

look - i honestly cant see an issue with ANY gender employee asking a customer if they need help. Its a public space, and its literally their job.
if anyone has an issue with interacting with a trans person in a shop then that's on them, i cant see that any wrong has been done here. No one should have an expectation to only meet people who fit their own standards of acceptability and get upset when they don't. Trans people exist and have jobs. We will all meet them.

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Safeguarding red flag there mate.

Helleofabore · 09/08/2025 07:18

TheLudditesWereRight · 09/08/2025 07:13

OP I am broadly GC but I agree that this is really heading down a slippery slope of trans people not being allowed to do normal everyday jobs in public.

When was it ever appropriate behaviour for a male person to approach a 14 year old girl in a bra department to offer to help them?

Helleofabore · 09/08/2025 07:17

sadmillenial · 09/08/2025 07:02

look - i honestly cant see an issue with ANY gender employee asking a customer if they need help. Its a public space, and its literally their job.
if anyone has an issue with interacting with a trans person in a shop then that's on them, i cant see that any wrong has been done here. No one should have an expectation to only meet people who fit their own standards of acceptability and get upset when they don't. Trans people exist and have jobs. We will all meet them.

Show quote history

If you cannot see the boundary being crossed by a male person approaching a 14 year old girl in the bra section to offer help you really have low boundaries around appropriate adult behaviour. Particularly considering it was a 14 year old old who they assumed was alone.

No male people should be approaching 14 year old girls in the bra section. At all.

“Trans people exist and have jobs. We will all meet them.”

And this trite statement is fucking irrelevant to the situation. But it obviously made you feel better to deliver such a supercilious line. Well done.

AnSolas · 09/08/2025 07:16

Whatthebarnacles · 08/08/2025 23:33

FWIW My dad used to work at a high street fashion store - for years. On the tills, on the floor etc. Suddenly he was put on changing room duties, just as female employees were. Shop sold male and female clothing and the store changing rooms were of the layout of a corridor and curtains in front of each bay kind of off the handbag department. It would be staffed at the entrance of the corridor and if you needed a different size etc that staff member would sort that out for you. It was rare men would use the changing rooms.

You can imagine how uncomfortable he was, and no doubt the customers would be too - except for some that actually wanted to flirt/intimidate. It really bothered him and he asked me to help him raise a complaint with HR. Ultimately it was a case of tough luck, as he was being treated the same as everyone else (who happened to be female). Strange though that he was the one who had to do all the heavy lifting and it would stay there til he was next on shift because, well - man.

Going back a good 15+ years ago here. And no, it wasn't M&S.

My point is, he was doing as he was told and actively tried to object that it was unreasonable to expect a man be on changing room duties with predominantly female consumers. He ended up handing his notice in after over a decade there - this was one of the reasons as to why. It was ruining his mental health and making him dread work. The looks he would get, and the pass agg comments from customers as if he had chosen to do that specific job would cut him deep. He died before his p45 landed.

Not for one second taking a "side" here. Just pointing out that his employer treated a man the same as a woman where it suited them, regardless of protests and/or questionable circumstances.

Sorry for your loss it must have been harder as you knew he was being bullied in his workplace. 🌻

His manager was bullying by subjecting him to sexual harrassment as he was being put in conflict with customers which only happened because of his sex and being made suffer sexual advances due to his sex and being asked to do more physical work than other female employees due to his sex.

TheLudditesWereRight · 09/08/2025 07:13

OP I am broadly GC but I agree that this is really heading down a slippery slope of trans people not being allowed to do normal everyday jobs in public.

Helleofabore · 09/08/2025 07:10

sadmillenial · 09/08/2025 04:37

oh have a day off....

if she was trans, then my statement stands that she was just doing her job. if she wasnt then all of this is ridiculous policing of "female height" and its a non-issue.
No cognitive dissonance.

"And that if a male shop assistant approaches a teen girl in the lingerie department to ask if she wants help and slinks away when he realises the girl's mum is with her - it's a good indication his intentions were not simply to help"
- this is YOUR interpretation of the event, and it isnt how it was described by the people involved!
Nowhere in the complaint does it suggest that the mother or her daughter was asked whether the employee could perform the fitting. Instead, the complainant took issue that the employee was in this section of the shop in the first place.

Show quote history

"And that if a male shop assistant approaches a teen girl in the lingerie department to ask if she wants help and slinks away when he realises the girl's mum is with her“

and

“this is YOUR interpretation of the event and it isnt how it was described by the people involved!”

Actually NumberTheory WAS correct in their summary of what the mum has said. Or do you consider the mother not to be one of ‘the people involved’? Which would be rather a significant error on your part.

AnSolas · 09/08/2025 07:07

sadmillenial · 09/08/2025 02:36

While the mother behind the original complaint assumed the M&S employee was trans, there is no evidence as yet that this is even the case.
The original report merely repeats that mother’s claim that the staff member was “obviously” trans because she was “at least 6ft 2in tall”.
It’s also worth noting that public lingerie sections of shops are not designated single-sex spaces, and that trans women (and, frankly, anyone else) have a right to shop for lingerie.

isnt this actual story "trans woman just does her job in a public space and 2 people get aggy because they dont want to have to talk to trans women"

You :
Male shop employee sees a underage female in the underwear department.
He walks up to underage female and asks if he can help her purchase underwear.

Is this your "winning" argument?

Why?
because he did not bring a puppy?

Helleofabore · 09/08/2025 07:02

SnowFrogJelly · 08/08/2025 23:48

Sorry to break it to you but many trans women look exactly like … women!!

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You really shouldn’t assume that your own inability to correctly identify the sex of a male person is the universal experience.

Or are you one of those people who look at someone and if they fit enough stereotypical traits categorise people that way. Like the barrister in Australia who defined being a woman as wearing a v-neck top and having a long hair?

sadmillenial · 09/08/2025 07:02

TheUnusuallyQuerulentMxLauraBrown · 09/08/2025 06:49

He.

The shop assistant is male, that’s why M&S apologised.

Gender Identity is like a dream, only relevant to the dreamer.

Show quote history

look - i honestly cant see an issue with ANY gender employee asking a customer if they need help. Its a public space, and its literally their job.
if anyone has an issue with interacting with a trans person in a shop then that's on them, i cant see that any wrong has been done here. No one should have an expectation to only meet people who fit their own standards of acceptability and get upset when they don't. Trans people exist and have jobs. We will all meet them.

TheUnusuallyQuerulentMxLauraBrown · 09/08/2025 06:49

sadmillenial · 09/08/2025 04:37

oh have a day off....

if she was trans, then my statement stands that she was just doing her job. if she wasnt then all of this is ridiculous policing of "female height" and its a non-issue.
No cognitive dissonance.

"And that if a male shop assistant approaches a teen girl in the lingerie department to ask if she wants help and slinks away when he realises the girl's mum is with her - it's a good indication his intentions were not simply to help"
- this is YOUR interpretation of the event, and it isnt how it was described by the people involved!
Nowhere in the complaint does it suggest that the mother or her daughter was asked whether the employee could perform the fitting. Instead, the complainant took issue that the employee was in this section of the shop in the first place.

Show quote history

He.

The shop assistant is male, that’s why M&S apologised.

Gender Identity is like a dream, only relevant to the dreamer.

NumberTheory · 09/08/2025 06:16

sadmillenial · 09/08/2025 04:37

oh have a day off....

if she was trans, then my statement stands that she was just doing her job. if she wasnt then all of this is ridiculous policing of "female height" and its a non-issue.
No cognitive dissonance.

"And that if a male shop assistant approaches a teen girl in the lingerie department to ask if she wants help and slinks away when he realises the girl's mum is with her - it's a good indication his intentions were not simply to help"
- this is YOUR interpretation of the event, and it isnt how it was described by the people involved!
Nowhere in the complaint does it suggest that the mother or her daughter was asked whether the employee could perform the fitting. Instead, the complainant took issue that the employee was in this section of the shop in the first place.

Show quote history

What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't say the employee offered a fitting.

sadmillenial · 09/08/2025 04:37

NumberTheory · 09/08/2025 03:14

So there is no evidence the shop assitant was trans but the the actual story is "trans woman just doing her job"?

Some cognitive dissonance you have going on.

The suggestion from the mum isn't that lingerie departments should be single sex spaces. The suggestion is that it's inappropriate for a man to approach a teen girl in the lingerie department and ask if she wants assistance, even if he works there, even if he identifies as a woman. And that if a male shop assistant approaches a teen girl in the lingerie department to ask if she wants help and slinks away when he realises the girl's mum is with her - it's a good indication his intentions were not simply to help and M&S should be concerned about that regardless of whether the guy was trans or not.

Show quote history

oh have a day off....

if she was trans, then my statement stands that she was just doing her job. if she wasnt then all of this is ridiculous policing of "female height" and its a non-issue.
No cognitive dissonance.

"And that if a male shop assistant approaches a teen girl in the lingerie department to ask if she wants help and slinks away when he realises the girl's mum is with her - it's a good indication his intentions were not simply to help"
- this is YOUR interpretation of the event, and it isnt how it was described by the people involved!
Nowhere in the complaint does it suggest that the mother or her daughter was asked whether the employee could perform the fitting. Instead, the complainant took issue that the employee was in this section of the shop in the first place.

NumberTheory · 09/08/2025 03:14

sadmillenial · 09/08/2025 02:36

While the mother behind the original complaint assumed the M&S employee was trans, there is no evidence as yet that this is even the case.
The original report merely repeats that mother’s claim that the staff member was “obviously” trans because she was “at least 6ft 2in tall”.
It’s also worth noting that public lingerie sections of shops are not designated single-sex spaces, and that trans women (and, frankly, anyone else) have a right to shop for lingerie.

isnt this actual story "trans woman just does her job in a public space and 2 people get aggy because they dont want to have to talk to trans women"

So there is no evidence the shop assitant was trans but the the actual story is "trans woman just doing her job"?

Some cognitive dissonance you have going on.

The suggestion from the mum isn't that lingerie departments should be single sex spaces. The suggestion is that it's inappropriate for a man to approach a teen girl in the lingerie department and ask if she wants assistance, even if he works there, even if he identifies as a woman. And that if a male shop assistant approaches a teen girl in the lingerie department to ask if she wants help and slinks away when he realises the girl's mum is with her - it's a good indication his intentions were not simply to help and M&S should be concerned about that regardless of whether the guy was trans or not.

sadmillenial · 09/08/2025 02:36

While the mother behind the original complaint assumed the M&S employee was trans, there is no evidence as yet that this is even the case.
The original report merely repeats that mother’s claim that the staff member was “obviously” trans because she was “at least 6ft 2in tall”.
It’s also worth noting that public lingerie sections of shops are not designated single-sex spaces, and that trans women (and, frankly, anyone else) have a right to shop for lingerie.

isnt this actual story "trans woman just does her job in a public space and 2 people get aggy because they dont want to have to talk to trans women"

Maddy70 · 09/08/2025 00:36

KnottyAuty · 09/08/2025 00:12

Yes. As are panties. And too many men are obsessed with those particular items of clothing and will inappropriately refer to them, try to look at them, twang the straps of them, up skirt photo them, install hidden cameras to get pics of them. They are just items of clothing but most women won’t want to discuss them with strange men

Edited

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And noone is making women discuss them with anyone.

Do you want any help ?

No thank you ..

KnottyAuty · 09/08/2025 00:12

Maddy70 · 09/08/2025 00:01

You know bras are just items of clothes right?

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Yes. As are panties. And too many men are obsessed with those particular items of clothing and will inappropriately refer to them, try to look at them, twang the straps of them, up skirt photo them, install hidden cameras to get pics of them. They are just items of clothing but most women won’t want to discuss them with strange men

RedToothBrush · 09/08/2025 00:12

Maddy70 · 09/08/2025 00:01

You know bras are just items of clothes right?

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You know people who come on a parenting forum and belittle others for making perfectly valid points about safeguarding, are walking red flags themselves. Right?

Countdown2023 · 09/08/2025 00:04

Maddy70 · 09/08/2025 00:01

You know bras are just items of clothes right?

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Clearly someone who has no idea.

It’s not about the adult feelings and wants in this situation.

murasaki · 09/08/2025 00:03

Maddy70 · 09/08/2025 00:01

You know bras are just items of clothes right?

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And you know that teenage girls find them mortifying in shops and don't want to be accosted by strange men, right?