Does the general public want to watch programmes about Transwomen?

Drag was not created to mock or deride like black face. It was created for effeminate gay men to express themselves in a way that wasn't allowed at the time, then grew in popularity because people enjoyed it. The intention matters.

I certainly don't believe that effeminate gay men are oppressing women or that they have more privilege than us.

The majority of drag audiences are gay men a d straight women. The women watching clearly don't feel mocked or derided by drag or they wouldn't be watching. I certainly don't feel "mocked by my oppressor" when watching drag. At no point ever would a black person watch the minstrels and not find it offensive so it's clearly not comparable.

The term "misinformation" is not being used in an accusatory manner here; it simply means inaccurate information, which is why I used it and not "disinformation" (inaccurate information intended to deliberately mislead or deceive).

It's good to be vigilant of information being spread without verification, as that's what some of those who believe women are being oversensitive about transgender identity movement have done to muddy the waters. We (as in people concerned about erosion of female rights) should not be doing what they are doing, even if some unverified or inaccurate information might seem entirely plausible.

No. We need more programming about trying to combat the scandal of overwhelming violence against women and girls. 51% of the population. Why is the 0.1% transwomen so important. Oh. 😑

It really is! What do you think drag is? It sends up/performs a gross caricature of womanhood.....often complete with the sorts of misogynistic stereotypes and crude tropes as any other. Often highly sexualised language and names of the sort which has been use to oppress women for ever.

I totally agree. I abhor the term 'fishy' it's gross. There some bad eggs in drag like there are in all groups of performers and people.

The fact that a derogatory term for he perceived smell of women's private parts was used as a device for guessing generally understood and commonly used definitions in drag on a primetime programme on tv rather suggests it's not a 'few bad apples' but in fact an intrinsic part of the misogynistic basis of drag.

'Women's bodies are disgusting - let's all laugh at them!!' is a revolting sentiment, even if the makeup is ever so pretty.

I'm not sure if you've read my comment in its entirety, because I've actually asked for that.

"The analyses I've come across showed inflation and cost of living (i.e., economy) as the most significant factors in the undecided group; could you link to an example that shows otherwise?"

this is misinformation, to the best of my knowledge; I have never seen reliable polls that indicate they were the most important factor among undecided voters in the 2024 US presidential election.

This is not misinformation. There has been polling that showed it was the #1 issue for undecided voters. Why jump straight to an accusation of misinformation before you have even asked for more information?

The ‘trans’ issue contributed heavily to the downfall of Nicola Sturgeon

I agree that Sturgeon's handling of issues surrounding transgender identity very much affected her, and those issues are a hot potato in the US as well, but

according to polling in the US was number 1 factor in the election of Donald Trump among ‘undecided’ voters ie Democrats who couldn’t face voting Democrat again

this is misinformation, to the best of my knowledge; I have never seen reliable polls that indicate they were the most important factor among undecided voters in the 2024 US presidential election.

Implications of transgender identity-related issues for women should not be downplayed and women should not be silenced when speaking up.

Nevertheless, some have been misconstruing those issues as the most salient one in the 2024 election, and this misinformation has seemingly spread a lot in online spaces where women's rights are primarily discussed.

The analyses I've come across showed inflation and cost of living (i.e., economy) as the most significant factors in the undecided group; could you link to an example that shows otherwise?

Yes, it's possible that some in the undecided group, such as Independent voters who were concerned about the impact the transgender movement has had on female rights, could have swung to the other side, but there has not been reliable data that demonstrated even among such voters the transgender identity issues were the most dominant vote driver.

Again, this isn't meant to silence women and erroneously claim that concerns are "nothing but fabricated", etc., because female rights are indeed impacted and women should not be ignored; this is just about the particular argument regarding the importance of those issues in the 2024 election which has yet to be completely verified.

Is it not? So what do you call men dressing up as members of an oppressed group? Or are you saying women are not oppressed by men?

Speaking as a member of the general public... do I want to watch programmes about transwomen? About as much as I want to watch programmes about transmen.

Good grief.

Woman face isn't a thing.

I think its a bit sexist to describe women being concerned over losing their rights as 'frothed up' 🙄

This is a thread about what's on tv. Aren't women allowed to discuss what's on tv? Is our sole purpose being concerned with all the shit going on because it's our job to sort it, because we are everyone's mummy?

Want to discuss NHS dentists? Start your own thread 🤷‍♀️

Suppose so But in the past many many people watched the black and white minstrel show. Now we know blackface is wrong. I’m wondering if in 30 years we’ll look back at all these men in woman face and cringe.

I totally agree. I abhor the term 'fishy' it's gross. There some bad eggs in drag like there are in all groups of performers and people.

But a short fat brummie bloke taking the piss out of Margaret Thatcher? Pass me the wine!

On a more serious note Alyssa Edwards was always my favourite contestant and he runs a dance school that is the gayest sparkliest establishment you've ever seen and the little dancers he teachers are incredible. There's a Netflix series about it and I loved every minute of it. It's just all the campness of musical theatre and some wholesome making kids dreams come true. Thoroughly recommend it!

It's like the Ballet Trocadero, men doing comical ballet but with all the elegance and grace and technical ability of professional ballerinas. They're hilarious! Especially when you're a ballet fanatic and understand the nuance of every silly step and what is was supposed to be if they weren't hamming it up. Some posters claimed they were just stealing women's jobs and hated women last time I bought them up here, which is absurd because women couldn't do what they do, it wouldn't be as funny if it wasn't a 6ft burly man in a tutu. Women get all the Prima roles and fill up the corps de ballet, there are no shortage of roles for them and I seriously doubt drag queens hate women and want them erased from ballet.

Some people don't like drag queens, fine. But they can't claim it's not actually an art form or that a lot of people don't find them entertaining. Clearly they do or drag race wouldn't come back season after season with eye watering sums of money for prizes from sponsors who are clearly profiting from it.

Thank you for such a considered post. Art is a broad spectrum and so it must be to tickle everyone’s fancies. Each to their own. The offensive ones pp mention as with everything a minority of dicks.

I don't watch the BBC anymore, or any of the usual tv stations because I got tired of them shoe horning it into everything, even science programmes. They're trying to normalise it, it's all part of the general plan to bring them in from the margins, they see it worked for same sex attracted people, so they just copying a try and tested formular. The fact that the entertainment industry is a natural home for the genderwangers has made it possible for the tv industry to swamp us with this barnpot ideology.

I enjoy the artistry of the makeup, they spend hours on it and it's really artistic. The clothes are fabulous and I love seeing the transformation. It's a performing art and I love performing arts in general for all the lights and sequins etc.

The dancing is brilliant and totally over the top, as a dancer I enjoy watching daft over the top dancing you wouldn't see in a serious genre. The lip sync battles are entertaining to us and you really get into rooting for a winner, they are quite a spectacle.

Then obviously the main purpose of drag is comedy. We enjoy the comedy and laugh quite a lot because most of it is utterly ridiculous, which is the point. Bagga chips doing Margaret Thatcher was hilarious. When they take it too seriously it's not fun anymore.

Sprinkle in some touching stories about the homophobia the contestants face and coming out stories and it can be touching at times too.

I think that a gay /lesbian series could do well or they could do a series where everyone is pansexual so the couples aren’t always male/female.
I’m assuming that the viewers are female heavy btw - I can’t imagine straight men watching gay men but considering how often young women end up writing gay fan fiction, I think they’d watch male couples.

This thread seems a bit mad but I wanted to try and answer the OP- although I must say I have few hard figures OP, so maybe you won't find my answer helpful.

I think the first thing to note is the figures I do know are that whereas once 18Mn people watched an episode of EastEnders, today I think a few million is considered really good. TV viewing is very fractured.

Anecdotally, I know loads of people who like Drag Race, both those I would have expected (gay male friends, female friends who love shows about dressing up) and those I wouldn't (friends from Church, Rugby friends of DH). I'd be surprised if it didn't draw in at a least a middling to good audience. It is on Netflix too if that helps. A very random internet site (Parrot analytics) says it has 10.5 times the average viewers for its timeslot.

No-one I know has mentioned watching What it Feels Like for a Girl tbh. It's on BBC 3 though, which I always thought had a remit to take risks.

On the Netflix side Sex Education has trans characters, quite a few people I know like that show and from what I can find online viewing figures have been high- 97.6 million viewing hours in the first month. Heartstopper also has a trans character, viewing figures seem to have been more modest according to Google, but it's popular enough for continued renewal.

I know they've been very controversial on FWR but I don't really see Rose from pottery throwdown as a casted character really- they just shove the stuff in the kilns, and have the odd cameo about the firing process, I don't see that their gender matters at all. The characters are more the contestants surely?

Paris Lees thinks street harassment is a compliment to women so I'm not interested in what he thinks it's like to be a girl.

Think they've had a "lovable but wise" drag queen though. Gave up watching it a few years back and caught the tail end of that episode so not 100% sure...

aye so ye ur.🤔

I think there are at least two possible markets, but both I have thought of are small. One is the "freak show" that I see on TwiX, the competition to find (or be!) the ugliest or the most outrageous. The other is trans people themselves (and possibly their allies) who would like to see some sort of positive representation.

The rest of us have plenty of real life concerns to worry about. Many of us have trans people in our daily lives, and they are like everyone else in how nice, funny, or unpleasant they are. Those I know, I like; but at the same time, I do not think their worldview is healthy, even the ones who are not exhibiting extreme behaviour. The normalisation of extreme body modification, though not confined to gender identity people, worries me a lot, along with messing up healthy endocrine systems. The enforcing of gender based language is authoritarian. The insidious narrative that those who disagree are hateful and bigoted, and the pressure to go no contact with anyone who doesn't affirm, is appalling and cause huge damage to loving relationships.

Same, Hoarda. My adult/older teenage DC are not in the slightest bit interested in these programmes and find it all rather tiresome.

The existence of Mrs Browns Boys is proof enough that what programme makers produce doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what is good, needed or wanted.