The disgraceful RCN and Nurse Jennifer Melle

What did the white colleagues say then? You seem to know, right?

The only pronoun needed to use to a patient's face is "you". What they are called when being discussed among HCPs is none of the patient's business. I cannot see any circumstance where you would need to use a patient's preferred pronouns. Quite often we refer to patients by illness not name e.g. the MI in bed 7, the D&V in bed 9 or Pain In The Arse in bed 5.

@Ereshkigalangcleg obviously you are free to offend who you wish, equally I don't want to be associated with anyone diminishing or using serious and deadly mental illness like anorexia or psychosis to support you using the pronouns you want to use to refer to someone.

I'm guessing you don't have any serious personal or family experience of either of these conditions to be remotely comparing that to calling a transwomen "she". You aren't doing GC side any favours you just will drive people like myself away who are disturbed by the extremity.

That may be a case for racial discrimination sure.

However, she specifically told the "transgender" patient she wasn't going to use their preferred pronouns because it was against her Christian beliefs. I don't think any of the white colleagues said anything like that. It sounds like he made a complaint specifically against her.

I suspect other medical professionals would all argue they were accidentally misgendering and would have corrected if asked.

It's also worth noting as far as I'm aware - whether you agree or not - refusing or deliberately not using preferred pronouns is against NHS trust policy, accidentally is not. They have the ability to enforce their policies.

Thank you, I’d missed that.

She also noted that a white colleague used male pronouns for the same patient but was not investigated.

https://sex-matters.org/case-briefings/jennifer-melle-v-epsom-and-st-helier-university-hospitals-nhs-trust/

They've probably turned it into that so they don't look like NHS Fife, and that's also probably a more serious "offence"

@Shortshriftandlethal That's not what happened. Quite a lot of patient medical information has certainly been released, what hospital, what crime, how tall they are etc.

Granted we haven't had the full details yet, other than that she's been suspended for breaching patient confidentiality which the NMC takes very very seriously.

I don't know the precise rules for nurses r.e. confidentiality. It may be that the detail was enough to figure out who it was even if not named, maybe named and redacted idk.

Evidently patient confidentiality rules apply exactly the same whether a lovely transwomen called Debbie or an evil convicted criminal.

What about a patient imposing a personal religious belief on medical staff?

As long as someone is not being expected to actively participate in whatever the fantasy/personal belief of the dying person is there should not be an issue.

Jennifer Melle was overheard by this man using a male pronoun for him. He then called her the n word multiple times.

Correctly gendering someone with a trans identity is seen as a breach of confidentiality.

R.e. your specific claim that's it's "harmful" to use preferred pronouns that's up for debate of course, there needs to be more evaluation. But I'm not sure deciding whether or not to do so should be up to individual medical professionals' choice.

It's also not what the nurse is claiming here she's been quoting the Bible and Genesis which is prefer to be kept out of healthcare frankly.

I've read that thanks. Although it adequately argues for individuals to use "correct sex pronouns" I'm not sure it applies here. Two relevant issues:

1. Can an NHS medical service require their staff to use preferred pronouns and/or avoid using so called correct sex pronouns?

2. If an NHS medical service does have this requirement, can this override an individual person's alleged "religious belief"?

Evidently a medical service is a unique environment, where all medical professionals personal and religious beliefs are separate and that's important.

R.e. abortion there are specific UK laws allowing doctors not to be involved. I don't think it's analogous. They are also expected to be neutral and not act in a way that could be perceived as judging patients.

I'm concerned about a precedent that a medical professional can refuse all sorts of things on the grounds of stating religious belief.

No, I can’t see a difference. You’re indulging in special pleading for the “gender” belief. Which is fine, just don’t expect others to join you.

I was merely trying to ascertain whether you had any limits to how much you’d affirm someone’s identity. As I suspected, you do. Look up “neopronouns”. We all have our red lines.

It is harmful to deliberately use wrong-sex pronouns.

It is a lie. It promises that person something that can never be true.

It reinforces a delusion ( if they truly believe that they are the opposite sex, or no-sex) or services their paraphilia (if they are autogynephiliac).

It risks them being mistreated, whether medically or otherwise (eg a trans-identifying woman missing out on opportunities and services aimed at women).

It decieves vulnerable people, such as the women who wants a female HCP to carry out her smear test, or your elderly parent with dementia.

Read this article:

Pronouns are Rohypnol

I honestly do not know how she could possibly describe a urological /catheter problem to a doctor on the phone without specifying the sex of the patient.

The mistake she made was admitting to having a Christian faith that influenced her thoughts and actions.

So it’s not hard to change tack if you are upsetting someone

so we have two people being upset - one for not having their pronoun choice respected and one for not having their sex based beliefs respected - but only one of them is expected to alter their behaviour?

But it is delusional to deny your biological reality. No matter how hard someone wishes to be something other than their biological reality it will.never ever be the case. These people should have been told No from the very beginning. I'm sick of the time and money that's been wasted on this nonsense over so many years. It should always have been treated as a mental illness.

No, people who have delusions about what sex they are are just as delusional as someone who thinks they are superman. And they shouldn't be allowed to have their penises removed, which about 90% of them don't of course.

Or they are lying.

Take your pick.

And I have no idea why you think I'd complain about blah blah blah. I don't complain, I argue my point.

I'm a decade on from worrying about people being offended.

They won't ask politely will they, that's the point. They will complain and the person who slipped up [by saying ONE WORD] will LOSE THEIR JOBS.

Just like the lady who this thread is about.

This is so utterly disgusting that I actually feel tearful.
How anyone can support that deluded man, who hatefully racially abused a nurse who was doing her job and making sure he had appropriate care is beyond me.
Maybe she should have said ‘her penis burns when she urinates’. What utter nonsense.
Surely any right minded person sees that?
I hope the nurse brings a case of racial abuse against him but no doubt she is expected to just put up with it. That’s how people feel free to be vile and illogical.