My son’s school insisting he calls NB teacher Mx

Whose legal right should take precedence? A child or parents right to say 'you are a man and I should be able to refer to you as one', or the teacher's right to say 'I am NB so refer to me as Mx and use the pronouns of my choice'.

The child and parents want to have freedom of speech to say 'you are a man and I should be able to refer to you as one'. They are asking nothing of anyone else, just the right to say what they believe.

The teacher wants other people to refer to him in a certain way. He's not asking for freedom of speech, but the right to coerce other people to talk to and about him in a way which corresponds to his beliefs, even though those other people may not share his beliefs.

So it comes down to freedom of speech vs. coercion. I know whose rights I think should take precedence.

Why should people be coerced into participating in someone’s delusion that they’re neither male or female?

Gender ideology, and more broadly identity ideology and all the extreme ideologies that we’ve seen pop up in he last decade or so, are the opposite of tolerant. It’s all part of progressive authoritarianism, which is completely intolerant of anyone deemed to be engaging in “wrongthink”. If you think that’s tolerance, you are seriously mistaken.

Crikey

1). No one is born intersex. Everyone is male or female

2. some people have disorders of sexual development (dsd’s) which can make their external genitalia ambiguous. This is incredibly rare (and they’re still male or female)

3. the chances of this chap having a dsd are REALLY slim. It’s irrelevant to this discussion really

4. everyone in fact DOESN’T get to be addressed how they choose. Some people want to be addressed as ‘Your highness’ or ‘Doctor’ for no good reason

5. the teacher is telling children that there are some individuals who are neither men nor women, which is bollocks. It’s best when teachers don’t tell kids bollocks

apart from that, you crack on

People living with DSDs are either male or female - DSDs are sex-specific.

This teacher doesn't have a DSD. He is just claiming to be neither male nor female. Which is impossible.
Or he is claiming that he is special doesn't fall into masculine or feminine gender stereotype boxes. Which actually makes him the same as the vast majority of humanity.

If it doesn't matter what he is called, why are the children being compelled to use the title Mx?

ETA: The teacher can follow his lifestyle in his own time and leave the kids out of it.

@IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380972-i-have-a-dsd-and-am-fed-up

It's not nonsense. Some people are born intersex. How would you insist they defined themselves?
Society has deemed that gender roles are binary, despite biological sex showing that this is not actually the case.

You are very confused here but I suggest you read an extremely interesting and informative thread on this board posted by a woman who was born with a DSD.

I don't like it if it means explaining to young children that some people think they are non binary. That's a belief I don't subscribe to.

@CorvusPurpureus I do wonder why this hasn't been the approach, I've not heard much of a push to just get kids to call teachers by wanky made up first names and ditch the titles completely.

I’m fairly GC, but when DC came home and said Mx is teaching us them and they instead of the subject I was a bit riled. However on meeting Mx at parents meetings. I actually changed my mind. It was a bio female I was looking at, and very young. I think they were 22/23. I thought actually they are still very young and learning about life. They were in a relationship with a bio male. (We bumped into them out of school) no idea what the bio male identified as. But I felt incredibly old.

Sadly Mx wasn’t there the following year. DC got the impression they sort of left under a cloud.

Well if there are people in the world who wish to not use a gendered prefix to their name it should be respected. There are a few and 'Mx' presumably is just as legit as the others.

I am not really keen on the whole 'miss' and 'sir' culture in schools. And frankly would prefer first names. My primary school and 16+ college managed fine using first names for teachers.

I certainly don't call my superiors at work 'sir' etc. So it doesn't really represent real life. But they must obey the rules and be respectful.

But if you must use it then of course use the one the person requests. It's basic courtesy.

Principally for safeguarding. Nothing to do with their capabilities as teachers.

It's not nonsense. Some people are born intersex. How would you insist they defined themselves?
Society has deemed that gender roles are binary, despite biological sex showing that this is not actually the case.

Ultimately the key issue is the quality of education the children are receiving. It doesn't actually matter how someone identifies. It doesn't matter what name they ask to be called. Everyone deserves the respect of being addressed how they choose.

The teacher is not telling children that their lifestyle is something that should be followed, or that is the right one, just that this is their preference.

Admiring your judgey pants. Exactly this.

And there was me thinking the whole thing was about safe spaces for women….

But no….it’s the whole shebang! Why is it important for kids to know the sex of the person teaching them? I’d prefer a non-binary/gender whatever teaching my kids tolerance than a teacher preaching spite and intolerance. It literally changes nothing - not for you, not for your kids.

I believe ‘father’ came from the priest being a direct line to God. So we’re ok with that possibly imaginary name, but not the other. Hmmm.

A lot of jobs come with titles. Bishop, Inspector, General, Admiral, Doctor, Professor. Just one of those things. Mx has no meaning either professionally or socially. It’s just Bllx.

At my child’s school it was pronounced MUX emphasis on the U sound.

How is that compatible with incoming statutory rules on not teaching political ideas on gender?

I know they aren't valid for another 12 months but that's the question I'd be asking.

Imagine changing your title so people don't make sexist assumptions and then everyone just assumes you must be a blue-haired lunatic instead

Because, whether one believes in god or not, 'priest' and 'father' are titles attached to an actual job that exists. Non-binary is an unnecessary category of person based on personality traits. It doesn't need a title.

Agree with the question and assertion

To be honest, and I say this with my very best judgey pants hoiked and hoist, if you don’t want to be judged at work then don’t stand there with a big sign around your neck saying “Looook at meeee, look how special I am.”

Just go in, do your job and be judged on how well you do it.

Someone up thread asked how Mx is pronounced. Can anyone enlighten us?
Not sure why I’m asking as I think it’s a load of tosh.

Excellent idea!!!!! Like’sensei’ at judo/karate -respectful of the role, gender irrelevant

Because for most genderists the aim is to be validated in their gender beliefs, rather than to avoid complications.