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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Do we allow Sharia law in this country?

168 replies

happydappy2 · 27/07/2025 13:08

I thought we all had to abide by British Law-wtf is going on? This is bad for women...surely this isn't true
https://x.com/benhabib6/status/1949438058723528730

https://x.com/benhabib6/status/1949438058723528730

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 27/07/2025 16:41

Mountainsfar · 27/07/2025 16:30

Yes, British law is the law of the land, and everyone must abide by it. But it’s important to understand that religious councils (like Shariah councils or Jewish Beth Din courts) don’t override UK law — they operate in specific, voluntary religious or civil matters within the framework of British law.

For example, the Beth Din in Judaism handles religious divorces for Jewish couples — in a similar way, Shariah councils help Muslim couples seeking an Islamic divorce. These decisions are not legally binding unless both parties choose to follow them, and they don’t replace the UK legal process. Anyone still has the right to go through the family courts, which have the final legal say.

It’s worth pointing out that many religions have internal tribunals or councils — it’s not unique to Islam. What’s essential is that all these operate within the law, not outside of it.

Give unto Caesar and all that ....

Mountainsfar · 27/07/2025 16:30

Yes, British law is the law of the land, and everyone must abide by it. But it’s important to understand that religious councils (like Shariah councils or Jewish Beth Din courts) don’t override UK law — they operate in specific, voluntary religious or civil matters within the framework of British law.

For example, the Beth Din in Judaism handles religious divorces for Jewish couples — in a similar way, Shariah councils help Muslim couples seeking an Islamic divorce. These decisions are not legally binding unless both parties choose to follow them, and they don’t replace the UK legal process. Anyone still has the right to go through the family courts, which have the final legal say.

It’s worth pointing out that many religions have internal tribunals or councils — it’s not unique to Islam. What’s essential is that all these operate within the law, not outside of it.

AnSolas · 27/07/2025 16:23

PhilippaGeorgiou · 27/07/2025 15:21

@AnSolas I do not disagree and I spend half my life telling young Muslim women to get to the registry office! But also please understand that there is a lot of misinformtion around about divorce in Islam, and women do have rights. That is why organisations like this have advisors who can ensure that women (and it is often women) know what they are entitled to in terms of support and maintenance. Mosques and communities can bring pressure to bear on men who ignore their responsibilities or act against Sharia. Having a UK legal marriage may be a higher standard in terms of protection, but in its absence then this is better than nothing.

All that said there is a simple fix. You can get married in the UK in a hotel, a cave, a zoo or a theme park - amongst many places some of which are distinctly unusual, by a registrar or an authorized religious official, such as a minister, priest. But you cannot get married in a mosque or by an Imam. It is hardly going to bring Britian to its knees if we changed the law to allow Imams to be registrants, allowing them to conduct both a Muslim and a "UK" marriage at the same time. If a couple have a Muslim marriage in another country where the marriage is recognised, then the UK recognises it as a legal marriage. So refusing the ability for British Muslims to marry "Islamically" in their own country is wildly illogical.

I can see there are advantages in the way both parties recognise that they are entering into a contract relationship. Something which has slipped out of "public knowledge/ understanding" (?) when it comes to "marraige" in the UK.

But can also understand how the personal bias and cultural background within a community can work against women as they try to exit their relationship.

Agreed that its a simple enough matter to recognise other Faiths.

Ireland reorganised to allow anyone to apply to be a Solemnisers when it introduced a waiting period back in 2004 and also stuck in a provision of obliging having a translator to ensure that language was not an issue.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/3/section/53/enacted/en/html

Civil Registration Act 2004, Section 53

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/3/section/53/enacted/en/html

ShesTheAlbatross · 27/07/2025 16:22

Imnobody4 · 27/07/2025 14:17

I think the confusion re funding arises because the job is advertised on Gov UK site.

But the DWP job site has over 100,000 jobs listed on it. It isn’t a site for government jobs. Half a second of looking at it tells you that. It has jobs from nannies to plumbers, HGV drivers to carers, legal secretaries to tutors. No one thinks these are all funded by the government.

mamagogo1 · 27/07/2025 16:15

@PhilippaGeorgiou

but civil registrars can and do conduct marriages in mosques if the building has registered for civil weddings

SerendipityJane · 27/07/2025 16:12

MarieDeGournay · 27/07/2025 16:08

I had to google it - very apt and very well said!👏

Yeah, that's about an hour a week of your life back. Coupled with Hitchens razor and you are good to rise above 95% of the internet.

PandoraSocks · 27/07/2025 16:11

Why is there so much racist shite being posted on Mumsnet nowadays? The site is infested with it. There was a lovely poster last night who was using the terminology of white supremacists.

mamagogo1 · 27/07/2025 16:09

British law trumps all religious “courts” but as long as advice isn’t illegal, people are free to turn to such courts for civil matters, typically family court matters but if both parties do not agree then you have to use a secular court

MarieDeGournay · 27/07/2025 16:08

SerendipityJane · 27/07/2025 16:04

All of this thread could have been avoided with a judicious application of Betteridges law. Which also clears up 99% of Mail, Express and Telegraph "stories".

Use the time saved to enjoy a nice 🍷

I had to google it - very apt and very well said!👏

SerendipityJane · 27/07/2025 16:04

All of this thread could have been avoided with a judicious application of Betteridges law. Which also clears up 99% of Mail, Express and Telegraph "stories".

Use the time saved to enjoy a nice 🍷

Sausagenbacon · 27/07/2025 15:59

I'm pointing out that their are women in this country who don't speak English and are discouraged from participating in British culture.
How will they know that sharia law has no force in the UK?
Are you telling me that that is incorrect?

Jdkaksbd · 27/07/2025 15:38

Sausagenbacon · 27/07/2025 15:21

UK law trumps Sharia law.
How many muslim women, at the mercy of a patriarchal culture, know that?

Are you trying to turn this into a general Islam bashing thread now? Shame on you

Jdkaksbd · 27/07/2025 15:37

SummerFeverVenice · 27/07/2025 14:13

OP you are being ridiculous
Sharia law is equivalent to rabbinical law and canon law.

These all govern religious matters. They are not a replacement for and are subordinate to civil and criminal law set by governments.

THIS.

It's clear the OP is just trying to whip up outrage and create division between people.

PhilippaGeorgiou · 27/07/2025 15:35

Sausagenbacon · 27/07/2025 15:21

UK law trumps Sharia law.
How many muslim women, at the mercy of a patriarchal culture, know that?

It's actually quite patronising to assume that many Muslim women do not know their rights, whether under UK or Islamic law. It could be argued that many UK women are just as "ignorant" of acting in their own best interests. I generally avoid AI but it can have its place in getting an instant answer:
In England and Wales, approximately 6.8 million adults aged 16 and over are living with a partner in a cohabiting relationship, meaning they are not married or in a civil partnership. This represents about 22.7% of the population in that age group. The number of people in cohabiting relationships has been steadily increasing, with a rise from 5.4 million in 2012 to 6.8 million in 2022.
The vast majority of those will be white British and many will be women. So are they somehow smarter than Muslim women? Or do I keep imagining all the posts on this site about (white, UK born, unmarried) women having no rights, or their husbands / partners refusing to pay maintenance?

PhilippaGeorgiou · 27/07/2025 15:25

RaspberryRipple2 · 27/07/2025 15:00

The whole thing reads like a fake advert planted just to spread racial hatred on social media, no? That was my first assumption. It’s on the DWP website to make it look like it’s a state funded council role.

You know I did wonder about that myself, although I would HOPE the DWP check their employers registering. But I was a bit "surprised" at the misspelling of Sharia and the "community centre" description which seemed "off"...

SummerFeverVenice · 27/07/2025 15:23

Sausagenbacon · 27/07/2025 15:21

UK law trumps Sharia law.
How many muslim women, at the mercy of a patriarchal culture, know that?

Probably the same % of Christian, Jewish, Sikh, and Buddhist women since last I looked almost all cultures are patriarchal.

Sausagenbacon · 27/07/2025 15:21

UK law trumps Sharia law.
How many muslim women, at the mercy of a patriarchal culture, know that?

PhilippaGeorgiou · 27/07/2025 15:21

@AnSolas I do not disagree and I spend half my life telling young Muslim women to get to the registry office! But also please understand that there is a lot of misinformtion around about divorce in Islam, and women do have rights. That is why organisations like this have advisors who can ensure that women (and it is often women) know what they are entitled to in terms of support and maintenance. Mosques and communities can bring pressure to bear on men who ignore their responsibilities or act against Sharia. Having a UK legal marriage may be a higher standard in terms of protection, but in its absence then this is better than nothing.

All that said there is a simple fix. You can get married in the UK in a hotel, a cave, a zoo or a theme park - amongst many places some of which are distinctly unusual, by a registrar or an authorized religious official, such as a minister, priest. But you cannot get married in a mosque or by an Imam. It is hardly going to bring Britian to its knees if we changed the law to allow Imams to be registrants, allowing them to conduct both a Muslim and a "UK" marriage at the same time. If a couple have a Muslim marriage in another country where the marriage is recognised, then the UK recognises it as a legal marriage. So refusing the ability for British Muslims to marry "Islamically" in their own country is wildly illogical.

RaspberryRipple2 · 27/07/2025 15:00

The whole thing reads like a fake advert planted just to spread racial hatred on social media, no? That was my first assumption. It’s on the DWP website to make it look like it’s a state funded council role.

AnSolas · 27/07/2025 14:53

PlanetJanette · 27/07/2025 14:17

Which is presumably why the ad asks for an understanding of UK law.

But being legally qualified is not necessary for a role that is essentially about theological advice rather than legal advice.

Islamic marraiges are not legal in the UK.
The couple need a civil marriage service and/or a real divorce if actually married.

So while I understand the Faith basis need the role should imo also be focused on knowing where the two laws clash and make sure that both parties understand the difference.

Old report highlighting the issue.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/20/women-uk-islamic-wedding-legal-rights-civil-ceremony-marriage

Most women in UK who have Islamic wedding miss out on legal rights

Poll for Channel 4 documentary finds 61% have not had separate civil ceremony to make marriage legal under British law

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/20/women-uk-islamic-wedding-legal-rights-civil-ceremony-marriage

Imnobody4 · 27/07/2025 14:52

PlanetJanette · 27/07/2025 14:17

Which is presumably why the ad asks for an understanding of UK law.

But being legally qualified is not necessary for a role that is essentially about theological advice rather than legal advice.

It deals with matters of divorce which includes issues around domestic abuse. Women's rights are a legal issue not a religious one in this country.
There is a conflict between hard line interpretation of Sharia and a woman's legal rights in this country.

SummerFeverVenice · 27/07/2025 14:37

AnSolas · 27/07/2025 14:26

These all govern religious matters. They are not a replacement for and are subordinate to civil and criminal law set by governments.

You could try argue that ^ point with the RC church🤷‍♀️

No need to because been the case with Roman Catholic canon law too since the Counter Reformation

AnSolas · 27/07/2025 14:27

PhilippaGeorgiou · 27/07/2025 14:08

According to the advertisement it is Manchester Shariah (sic) Council. Beyond that I know nothing and anyone wanting more fcat checking can do it themselves.

Thanks
then its a Faith job funded by a Faith

AnSolas · 27/07/2025 14:26

SummerFeverVenice · 27/07/2025 14:13

OP you are being ridiculous
Sharia law is equivalent to rabbinical law and canon law.

These all govern religious matters. They are not a replacement for and are subordinate to civil and criminal law set by governments.

These all govern religious matters. They are not a replacement for and are subordinate to civil and criminal law set by governments.

You could try argue that ^ point with the RC church🤷‍♀️

PlanetJanette · 27/07/2025 14:18

Imnobody4 · 27/07/2025 14:17

I think the confusion re funding arises because the job is advertised on Gov UK site.

That’s really not confusing. It is very obvious that it is being advertised on a generic jobs board provided by DWP.

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