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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

SNP Government call on services, like rape crisis centres, to 'justify' why they offer single-sex spaces

35 replies

IwantToRetire · 25/07/2025 21:06

The Scottish Government has now published its response to the EHRC consultation where it seems to suggest that services which want to provide a single-sex service, including the likes of Rape Crisis Centres, must "justify" why it wants to do so. Female rape victims were reported to have self-excluded from Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre because the transwoman Chief Executive refused to guarantee a biologically female support worker.
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/snp-government-call-services-like-35619364

SNP Government call on services to 'justify' why they offer single-sex spaces

John Swinney and his SNP Ministers have refused to ban biological men from women-only single-sex spaces, and have now demanded the Equality and Human Rights Commission amend its new trans guidance.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/snp-government-call-services-like-35619364

OP posts:
IwantToRetire · 26/07/2025 02:02

BeltaLodaLife · 26/07/2025 01:50

No. A service provider cannot open the service up to trans woman if they choose to. They have to open it up to all men; those who identify as trans woman and those who don’t. Otherwise they are illegally excluding some men whilst allowing others.

They also cannot admit trans women if they claim to be single sex. It’s not a choice. They’re single sex or they allow everyone.

That was my understanding. And confirmed on here a lot. Has that changed now?

WE keep having this discussion.

Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic. So could be the basis for a group.

And I wasn't saying a women only service could be opened up to trans women, I am saying if a service providers want to provide a service that includes trans women and women they are entitled to do that. It just wouldn't be a women only service.

Can we move on from this. There are so many threads about how protected characteristics of just one or two, could be the basis for a group or service.

But that is a side track to what this artice is saying.

Can we please focus of what is so dangerous about what the article alleges.

That women only services according to the SNP need to be "justified".

This is the thin edge of the wedge.

Taking something that is a right and demanding the those whose right it is have to justify it.

ie the SNP hasn't moved on from the era of ERCC.

Please focus on this.

If the article is true then the SNP is setting out to undermine the ruling, or the implication of the ruling. That women are a sex ie biological.

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 26/07/2025 01:59

A rape crisis centre shouldn’t have to explain why women receiving support for sexual assault, being needlessly in a room with the weapon used to attack them, is unbelievably stupid.

MyAmpleSheep · 26/07/2025 01:54

BeltaLodaLife · 26/07/2025 01:50

No. A service provider cannot open the service up to trans woman if they choose to. They have to open it up to all men; those who identify as trans woman and those who don’t. Otherwise they are illegally excluding some men whilst allowing others.

They also cannot admit trans women if they claim to be single sex. It’s not a choice. They’re single sex or they allow everyone.

That was my understanding. And confirmed on here a lot. Has that changed now?

That was my understanding. And confirmed on here a lot. Has that changed now?

We think that's true, and nobody anywhere has provided a convincing argument why it's not the case. But, "I heard it on Mumsnet" isn't a strong basis to argue in court. We really need some court decisions to back that up. There are some court actions in progress, so we should find out.

BeltaLodaLife · 26/07/2025 01:50

IwantToRetire · 26/07/2025 01:43

The Scottish Government has now published its response to the EHRC consultation where it seems to suggest that services which want to provide a single-sex service, including the likes of Rape Crisis Centres, must "justify" why it wants to do so.

I think there is a huge difference between setting up a women only service because it is "proportionate" to do it. ie most of our users say that's what the want, compared to saying it has to be "justified".

That is the arguement used by TRAs, and many women's groups in Scotland sadly, and is part of eroding the accepted rationale within the EA for same sex services. with rape crisis centres being used as the perfect example of the need for women only services.

The use of the word "justify" is the tactic used to say that a trans woman should automatically be part of women only services, and the service provider then has to justify why they cant.

It is hugely retrograde.

And as present by the Supreme Court not what they intended by clarifying the word sex means biology.

It was exactly so as to say "legal women" ie men with a GRC are NOT women.

It should never come up.

If a service provider in addition to providing women only services also wants to provide trans inclusive services, or even trans only, that is their right.

But it is never ever right that if a service provider wants to only provide services to women then nobody, whether a TRA, a politician or a funder can question that right.

The supreme court made that clear as its decision clarifies the part of the EA that has always been there (Exempt under the Equality Act 2010, Schedule 9, and Part 1. Section 7(2) e of the Sex Discrimination Act 1975.) That women only services are only for biological women.

Watch out for more weasel words from the Scottish Government, no doubt with an assortment of fan girl funded groups applauding them.

No. A service provider cannot open the service up to trans woman if they choose to. They have to open it up to all men; those who identify as trans woman and those who don’t. Otherwise they are illegally excluding some men whilst allowing others.

They also cannot admit trans women if they claim to be single sex. It’s not a choice. They’re single sex or they allow everyone.

That was my understanding. And confirmed on here a lot. Has that changed now?

IwantToRetire · 26/07/2025 01:43

The Scottish Government has now published its response to the EHRC consultation where it seems to suggest that services which want to provide a single-sex service, including the likes of Rape Crisis Centres, must "justify" why it wants to do so.

I think there is a huge difference between setting up a women only service because it is "proportionate" to do it. ie most of our users say that's what the want, compared to saying it has to be "justified".

That is the arguement used by TRAs, and many women's groups in Scotland sadly, and is part of eroding the accepted rationale within the EA for same sex services. with rape crisis centres being used as the perfect example of the need for women only services.

The use of the word "justify" is the tactic used to say that a trans woman should automatically be part of women only services, and the service provider then has to justify why they cant.

It is hugely retrograde.

And as present by the Supreme Court not what they intended by clarifying the word sex means biology.

It was exactly so as to say "legal women" ie men with a GRC are NOT women.

It should never come up.

If a service provider in addition to providing women only services also wants to provide trans inclusive services, or even trans only, that is their right.

But it is never ever right that if a service provider wants to only provide services to women then nobody, whether a TRA, a politician or a funder can question that right.

The supreme court made that clear as its decision clarifies the part of the EA that has always been there (Exempt under the Equality Act 2010, Schedule 9, and Part 1. Section 7(2) e of the Sex Discrimination Act 1975.) That women only services are only for biological women.

Watch out for more weasel words from the Scottish Government, no doubt with an assortment of fan girl funded groups applauding them.

OP posts:
Apollo441 · 26/07/2025 01:01

I think as long as they accept the reason given for SSE then the organisation should get funding (and i think they will or they'll end up in court). This should put an end to withholding funding from organisations that were operating SSE.

NHSFifeSadTimes · 26/07/2025 00:39

The SNP has failed to read the room. They are prepared to die on this hill. When are the next Scottish elections? May 2026, not much time to undo the damage.

NumberTheory · 25/07/2025 22:36

This is just what the Equality Act requires but made public, isn't it?

I think it could very much work in women's favour. It will put clear well worded reasoning on record for any women's group trying to get started (or hold the line, or return to better service provision for women) to copy or launch from.

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 25/07/2025 22:25

NImumconfused · 25/07/2025 22:15

I'd have just read that quotes bit to mean "make it clear up front what you're relying on to invoke the single sex exemption" (ie explain why it's a proportional means to a legitimate aim, which should be fairly straightforward)?

Yes, I also read it that way, plus a plea for trans people not to be left without equivalent service for them. Draft EHRC guidance already has similar wording.

NImumconfused · 25/07/2025 22:15

I'd have just read that quotes bit to mean "make it clear up front what you're relying on to invoke the single sex exemption" (ie explain why it's a proportional means to a legitimate aim, which should be fairly straightforward)?

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