Pansexual Demigirl - What on earth.

No, boys don't seem keen. It may just be they are even less interested in sex and being grown up at that age.

It's interesting, many of these girls were kind of popular, socially active girls. It was a cool group thing.

But the same type of boys, a few years on, are looking to rebel from the things they are being told in school by the authorities, and a lot of them seem to then reject all of the mainstream LGBTQ+ narratives.

So true, most of the "identity" folk at DD's school were girls. There was a boy who liked to wear makeup and was generally quite glittery and fabulous, but I don't think he was trans-identifying.

PS I am not just making it up about teenage girls and Tumblr, there was a presentation to LGBA by a couple of researchers about the history and origin of all these labels. Sorry I don't have the link any more, I saw a recording on Youtube a couple of years ago

I'm not convinced that there is a way of interesting boys in all this stuff until it happens to them, and it happens to them later than girls. Even boys who want to wear frocks don't worry so much about "am I demi-boy" or whatever they just want to wear a frock.

Girls are the talkers and self-labellers. In fact most of these labels were invented by teenage girls on Tumblr. I think it's highly creative and analytic (if completely bonkers)

That's what I said to my DD (not the nun part!) - "that's fine, but you're very young and people change so don't commit yourself to anything just yet".

I would consider talking to her about taking her time, not to worry if she feels differently, that what interests us changes over time and not to rush to commit to an identity.

I wanted to be a nun as a teenager. 😁

So it is done in a way that does not appeal to boys?

And heterosexuality is the boring option?

This creates an open goal for the likes of Andrew Tate

That’s true - some detransitioners become actively opposed to gender ideology, but among younger girls who never went very far with it, they’re less likely to go full GC. However I do see a general willingness to question the dogma and an understanding of things like why males in women’s sports is unfair. I do hear them discussing it and there’s a range of positions from “be kind” to “but you can’t actually change sex though”. My DD and her friends have male friends and some have boyfriends, and they are acutely aware of when someone is male and behave differently around them from when it’s girls only.

I’ve also been told by my older DC that the “gender crowd” are seen as a bit sad and deluded and it’s not fashionable any more. Which is a bit heartbreaking really as we know these are very often kids with autism, trauma or who are actually gay and felt left out and in search of cool points/social cachet to start with.

Eleven is the age where this stuff ramps up fast.

About 5 or 6 years ago I was woking in a library in a largish village. For Pride month they put out a basket of buttons with the colours of all the differernt sexuality and gender flags, plus they had a big chart so you could see what they mean.

I don't think one boy looked at it, but the 11 year old girls were all over it, picking up "Their buttons."

Not one of them was heterosexual. They were all pansexual, or asexual, or a few who said they were lesbians. Quite a few said they were non-binary though they appeared to be normal 11 year old girls with long hair and girly clothes and jewellery and all the rest.

They had of course been indoctrinated with all of it at school, and many belonged to the school club for LGBTQI+ kids. But most weren't seriously interested in sexual matters yet and I suspect many were intimidated about it.

As far as the "pansexual" thing, it mainly seemed motivated by the idea that it was inclusive, whereas hetero or homosexuality was seen as discriminatory. Cause that's where these little kids were when thinking about the sexual stuff they'd been taught.

I remember seeing one detransitioner on Youtube who had hundreds of comments on the video on the lines of "I thought I was trans for a year but luckily never told anyone."

It probably is embarrasment in many cases but also deciding you yourself are not trans neednt mean you think the whole idea of gender identity and transness is wrong. We need to he wary of seeing detrans and desistance as a gotcha in the way TRAs see DSDs.

It's tricky because for many children, this is the latest way to belong to a group (whereas group identities used to based on music and you could tell what music a group listened to by looking at their fashion style, some children and young people now base their identity on made up gender nonsense) and a way of exploring growing up.

It's reassuring to hear so many examples of children growing out of this. I echo the advice of ignoring it when talking to your niece; having a good relationship with her and doing fun, age appropriate things together.

But a minority of girls do get sucked further in and end up doing irreversible harm to their bodies via drugs and surgery. Time to Think exposed what went wrong at the Tavistock and highlighted the exponential growth in the number of teenage girls being referred to the clinic.

I would keep an eye on your niece and watch out for signs of her getting absorbed into the gender cult, especially as she has unfettered access to social media.

I find the silence after social self-ID interesting. There are detransitioners who were really in the thick of it with hormones and surgeries, but what about all these girls, probably found in every school, who decided they were genderspecial before quietly returning to sanity? I'd love to hear their take on it all but I guess they don't speak out of... embarrassment?

I actually think it's very important for young people - or in fact anyone - who is drawn in by the idea of having a special "gender identity" to have someone in their life who doesn't affirm it, because if they are surrounded by people affirming and "celebrating" their "true self" etc, it makes it much harder for them to have second thoughts and row back. Given that a large majority do desist if left alone, that is often going to happen but it's harder for them if everyone they know is cheering them on. And being able to think it through and desist if that's right for them is important, since heading down that path tends to lead to irreversible and generally harmful physical interventions.

I have people in my life who are going down that route and won't speak to me because I'm not on board - but at least I (and I hope they) know if they do ever need the support of someone who isn't on board, I'll be there.

This exactly. 10-11 was when my DD and all her friends had to have a LGBTQ++ identity - it wasn't cool to be anything else. They literally got a bunch of flags that one of them had obtained off Amazon and shared them out. My DD was "bi" and I'm pretty sure she just chose what involved the least having to commit to anything while not being left out.

I made vague noises along the lines of "well there's no hurry, you know you could change your mind anytime, I love you whatever" and it got left behind. One girl did get more into it, announced she was a boy, then NB, and changed her name, but she's now happy as a girl.

Anyone who tries to say there isn't social contagion involved in this is in denial or insane. It's so obvious.

Pansexual - she isn't actually attracted to anyone but wants to be kind
Demigirl - she hasn't finished (or possibly started) puberty so hasn't a clue what being a woman is. Plus doesn't get on with the girls who are in to boys and makeup.

Can you ask to follow her on her social media stuff?

If her parents aren’t bothered they probably will show more interest if you point out what she’s seeing.

In my experience, there’s a big Venn diagram crossover where young girls questioning their sexuality are meeting much older men questioning their sexuality online.

Absolutely, my DD's friend group at school was packed with trans and NB identifying, now largely forgotten about. All seem to tacitly agree not to mention it.

By far best to make no big deal about it at all, as in times to come she will probably have no wish to be reminded of it.

Would definitely not say anything to your niece unless she raises it.

We don't really know how many of these identities are ditched as kids grow up but it's probably fairly high. You don't want them worrying about an "I told you so" when they want to move on from the silliness.

My DD signed up for her uni accomodation and was then able to see her flatmates' social media (if they'd agreed to this). She was supposed to be sharing with three boys and one NB but when she moved in the NB had mysteriously become a mere female and no more was said.

I bet there's a lot of this goes on at transition points like entering sixth form or uni.

Often when "friends from home" turned up to visit my various uni friends we'd discover they knew the person by a slightly different name.

I think she's probably trying to fit in with a new group of friends, some of which may claim to be trans, NB etc. She's not any of those things so she's given herself this title that kind of affiliates her with it but doesn't really mean much.

Essentially she's saying she could fancy anyone potentially. Which is fine. Though it is probably a phase.

I would say many 11 year olds are well aware of their sexuality. I knew I fancied men/boys from when I was about three! But obviously these things can change.

Just ignore it and carry on your relationship as normal. Don't bother mention anything about it.

It's difficult, anyone that puts the internet into the hands of a child and isn't expecting some kind of negative outfall isn't really going to cop themselves on with a gentle chat. I'd probably keep my mouth shut, a good relationship between you and her mother will probably help her more. It's nutty.

That's tricky, I can see why you don't want to bring it up with the mum then. I would probably try to stay friends with your niece online, as you can see some of what she sees that way. And just be someone she can speak to.

My concern would be what sites she is going on to get this list of descriptions. And, to what extent is WhatsApp locked down so strangers can't see this and contact her. If she's on WhatsApp, she's probably also on Snapchat or TikTok. She's very young for this.
Which parent are you related to?

I saw a young girl on Twitter recently proclaiming herself a "panromantic asexual" which I took to mean that she falls in love a lot but isn't ready for sex... i.e. fairly normal teenage experience!

I don't know. It's hard. You know your sibling or your sibling in law. You could say you've seen it and ask if they know and you're concerned about it? I don't see the harm in saying that.

My sil just suggested something for my niece's birthday which is a bad idea and I said I didn't think it's was a safe thing for her age and why. She's having a look into it. But it could be difficult of course.