What does your partner think?

Been with DH 25 years so yes predating all the gender nonsense

he's very involved with a sport that has had problems with 'women's' teams turning up with 1 or 2 obvious men. He along with colleagues in similar role pushed back with the sport's governing body which was very captured but a few months ago did finally stop hand wringing and issue clear single sex guidance

@GCdater
I'm curious about PPs who have partners who agree with them - have you been with them for a long time? Ie. has your relationship been going longer than the gender activism years so it wasn't a factor when you met?
I've been with him decades. He thinks of himself as being very rational, and usually is. Very sciency.

If he'd read half of what I have, he'd be raging about the irrational insanity of it, but as things are, he broadly agrees but thinks I rant too much.

Partner - married 15+ years. Totally on side. Tech sector so experience with furries & all manner of chosen practices.

Definitely of the view you can be a lesbian and use your penis to have PIV sex. And no penises in the women’s changing room.

He’s senior at work and I was reflecting on comments on the Sandie Peggie thread re being of TRA types.

When hiring if it’s clear someone expected their PCs to trump over everyone else’s - as in Uptons case - he is trans above all else & justice for the sex realists (who he things are bigots and bullies). He’d just not bother hiring in that area. I know it wouldn’t be intention or blacklists or policy. People will just remember this level of drama and think I don’t want to have to deal with that nonsense.

Si TRAs will keep getting hired by captured organizations & live in echo chambers.

This is an interesting thread, and it seems like the majority of posters have partners who as a minimum agree on the basics even if they don't fully understand or spend much time thinking about this issue. Having a partner who actively disagrees sounds very difficult.

I'm curious about PPs who have partners who agree with them - have you been with them for a long time? Ie. has your relationship been going longer than the gender activism years so it wasn't a factor when you met? If it's a more recent relationship, were your partner's gender views something you actively screened for in the early stages of your relationship?

I posted a thread a few months ago about screening for sex realist men when dating. I have moments where I can't quite believe the world has changed so much in the last 10-15 years that this is something I'd even need to think about, it seems as ludicrous for screening for flat earthers, but here we are. I got lots of helpful comments in that thread, but of course someone piped up with the usual "why do you care?" question and suggested that men who don't think that TWAW must be horrible right-wingers, which is such a tiresome narrative.

Started off similar to you with him doubtful about anything that wasnt be kind and on the fence.

Slowly brought his attention to crazy stuff without pressure over a couple of years.

He is fully on side now. Don't ram it down their throats. Intelligent people see the logic in the end, so long as they dont have skin in the game.

Mine is a fully paid up TERF. (Can men be TERFs).

Mine doesn't really understand that they are GC views, just common sense and 'surely what everyone thinks '.

He knows I've been banging on about it a long time but it doesn't really impact him in any real way. He works in manufacturing at a traditional employer. It is as far from captured as you can get.

He simply can't wrap his head around a workplace like mine.

But he gets the sports issue. The darts player annoyed him most as 'i could probably beat him, he doesn't deserve prize money '.

And there's no way he'd allow a man in a dress in a changing room with his daughter.

So he is GC but wouldn't necessarily recognise the term.

DH broadly agrees, but says, 'You're more radical than I am about this.'
Yep, I say, because I know more about it than you do - go onto MN and discover the depth and breadth of the batshittery out there!

He's not a good listener, he needs to read to really take things in.

This kind of magical thinking is common among men I find.

It seems that no one wants to do the thinking, take the hard decisions and say 'no' to men people these days.

He doesn't think that his friend should use women's spaces, but (always a but isn't there) he seems to feel that if I just try harder I will find a way to magically allow his friend to 'live his authentic life' and keep women's rights intact at the same time. His partner (the girls' mum) is very TWAW and drives me mad with her pandering to the friend. All very frustrating - an understatement!

It is shit to have to use this to make a point, I agree. But it does cut through with some men.

It's not really about only fuckable women being women (although sadly this is true for some men I suspect) but about them bloody knowing what a woman is when it affects them

DH (an open minded, enjoys meeting 'characters' each to their own sort) is willing to listen and agrees with everything I've told him re all the usual topics. He gets it.

You don't need to get a grip. I would also be upset if my husband wouldn't talk to me about something that's really important to me. And women's rights should be important to all women AND those who love them.

so he'd be happy with his AGP male friend in changing rooms with his daughters? I mean he does understand there is no middle ground - Someone is either female or they're not

im so sorry - it must be infuriating to live with someone with that much cognitive dissonance

My son has daughters and was on-side in a vague 'what's all the fuss about' but yes women need their own spaces/sports manner. Then his best friend decided he was 'trans' (absolutely typical APG stuff) and, since then we more or less can't talk about it. He still agrees with me in principle but complains that I am unkind and 'increasingly hard-line'. He hates confrontation so I guess he's trying to find some mythical middle ground. It's upsetting but I do get that men will never quite understand what it's like to be a woman in a misogynistic, hyper-sexualised world.
Not sure how I'd deal with a partner who tried to walk the same line TBH. Think it would seriously undermine the closeness of the relationship.

I will try that, though I know I will be met by the “it’s just a tiny tiny minority bla bla bla….”

@donkey86 It's not about it being a hypothetical situation though. It's about him saying that your daughters choosing not to allow a boy / man to see their naked bodies in a female changing room without their consent is bigoted. This would be a HUGE issue for me. His attitude is disgraceful. How dare he say that their privacy is bigoted.

I would find that a bit of a struggle because women's rights are hugely important to me. My husband is definitely GC and reality based but he does find me endlessly going on about the insanity a bit tiresome which I understand.

He has always had the perspective that sanity will prevail, and it finally seems like it's getting there fortunately, but a lot of people put a lot on the line to get us here. I now only update him on key things.

Agree.
We have teenage dds which makes it obvious, but I think DH would feel the same regardless.

And I'm sure your DH has also never fancied a massive portion of the female population, and that has sod all to do with whether they're a woman. If you have to appeal to men's sexist view of what a woman is, you're not doing a very good job of explaining your argument to them or they're not male opinions you should even care about on this issue.

When trying to persuade youngsters (particularly teenagers) of the reality of sex over gender
basic instincts are a highly effective tool

if the boys think its rubbish, the 'be kind' of the girls can be better undermined

My DH is totally GC and understands the issues. I would find it really hard if he didn't because it's so important to me.

We have a longstanding male friend who doesn't get it though and we've been trying to gently lead him to examine the faulty reasoning at the heart of 'but some TW are nice so why won't you let them be women?'

It's hard. He just keeps looping back around to 'but it's really hard for them'. We won't stop plugging away with facts re sports and rape centres, and the fact that if you let one man in, it's no longer a women's space, what are your rules, etc.

But it pisses me off that at the heart of it, the friend is basically saying that women don't get to consent for ourselves, we should let some mens upset override our consent. He's got a wife and daughter and is usually very reasonable / pro women 😪

My DH is totally GC and understands the issues. I would find it really hard if he didn't because it's so important to me.

We have a longstanding male friend who doesn't get it though and we've been trying to gently lead him to examine the faulty reasoning at the heart of 'but some TW are nice so why won't you let them be women?'

It's hard. He just keeps looping back around to 'but it's really hard for them'. We won't stop plugging away with facts re sports and rape centres, and the fact that if you let one man in, it's no longer a women's space, what are your rules, etc.

But it pisses me off that at the heart of it, the friend is basically saying that women don't get to consent for ourselves, we should let some mens upset override our consent. He's got a wife and daughter and is usually very reasonable / pro women 😪

While i agree let's not reduce women to 'anyone fuckable', it IS a point that seems to get the issue across top certain men in terms they can understand.

Whether or not someone fancies someone doesn't have zero to do with it though, does it. I have never fancied a woman, DH has never fancied a bloke. It's relevant. Saying sex is not relevant to attraction is straying into homophobic 'genital fetishism' territory.