Peggie case: controversial opinion

I agree OP, it’s depressing but true. Nothing like a determined handmaiden. Males struggle to win arguments on this as they can’t claim to understand a woman’s perspective of being alarmed at male presence in private spaces, but these women are fully captured and determined in their disgusting disregard for their fellow ACTUAL woman.

I suspect if all these positions had been held by males

Males like Dr Upton?

Indeed, it is interesting that this stereotype exists

Women cannot be immune from criticism just for being women

I think you’re spot on!

I agree. Girls are having to put up with far too much in mixed sex schools and are increasingly unsafe. I believe there has been research showing that girls do better in single sex while boys do better in mixed sex so no prizes for guessing why we have mixed sex. I was lucky enough to go to a girls’ school and I thank my lucky stars I didn’t have to deal with the exposure to porn, assaults and general misogyny from young boys prevalent in schools today.

Fife has notably not sent any men apart from Upton to give evidence on the substantive issues. (There will be a man from IT appearing in court, but that seems to be someone from Information Security to verify that the search and disclosure process was thorough.)

We've heard the names of senior male staff involved but they have put mainly women up to answer for the debacle.

He would probably have had to abide by the guidance that would have been issued by HR, which itself would have been based on advice, presumably legal advice, that BU was entitled to use the room, on the basis that it was the changing room for women, ie anyone who identified as one.

I would love to know what lawyers have been advising about the Equality Act all this time.

I’m not a woman but I do agree with you.

If I may add a controversial opinion of my own: it’s a cop out to say “social conditioning made us do it”.

Yes, but just like violence in men, social conditioning is not the only cause. There are deep-seated differences in trait distribution between men and women that have been evolved into us over hundreds of thousands of years.

Plenty of the harms of the trans issue come from male-typical and female-typical behaviour. The violence and entitlement of males and the social enforcement of females.

I do not quite agree with this facile explanation that is rolled out all too often. Trans Ideology has taken root not with the most oppressed women of the world but the most privileged in the west who often pride themselves as the most openminded and progressive. It was led by feminist organisations and some of the most well known intellectuals of the feminist movement in the affluent west where women are least likely to be subjugated and brainwashed. Most of the feminist organisations in western universities and NGOs are in thrall to the trans cause, as are female unionists and political party leaders. The women fighting back were and still are a minority of the elite feminist leadership and a lot are less well-known and less-credentialed ordinary women. When social contagions take place, women, especially young women, play a prominent role in spreading them. Many of the GC women were peaked when they saw the huge numbers of young girls transing, a social phenomenon unknown before 2010. Social contagions acquire momentum when first elites adopt new ideas or trends and then a critical "mass" follow. Western feminism itself with its slogans and gender theory has played a part in this mess.

Interesting way to stereotype women on a feminist board.

This is a statistical error, you can make a true statement about a group, but can't just apply that same statement to individuals in the group.

It's interesting that this is in fact the direction a lot of the men who have become involved with opposing gender ideology started from.

It's also the direction I started from, probably because I'm non-binary too😜.

Re the class element, I suspect the number one correlation for adherence to gender ideology is university education.

And these days more women go to university than men. And in particular, in the humanities and social sciences which are where this crap is promulgated.

Though that doesn't tell us whether women are picking this stuff up from the universities, or the universities are prone to it because they have such a preponderance of women.

I think if you haven't worked in the NHS you wouldn't realise that bullying and power games that have always existed. There are more things that can be used to bully people now, and gender ideology is one that offers opportunities. and social media raises awareness. The nursing hierarchy perpetuates this culture, midwives are even worse IME ( I was harangued in the middle of the labour ward for having the temerity to take time off sick following a miscarriage at 13 weeks). Then there has always been the Drs vs nurses culture which usually means nurses get blamed for everything.
Having spoken to friends and relatives working in Teaching, Civil Service, Local Government, the work environment seems to be exactly the same.

What, that we’re prone to groupthink or that many of us are contrarian old trouts?
nah… we’re not all old.

Potentially a very brave accusation to make about many posters here...

A lot of it was to do with status in my opinion ... backing a consultant over a nurse. I think also, they had no clue, of what to do in this situation.

It’s a somewhat lower percentage but there’s quite a lot of vociferous male supporters, many in influential positions.

I don't think there are as many men supporting it. Any polls etc I've seen suggest not.

I agree OP.

Two words. Nicola Sturgeon.

A prime example.

I think you might have a point except that evidence is against you. There are as many men supporting this junk as women - though possibly from a different standpoint, that of male entitlement.
Many, many women are standing against this regressive ideology. Those who call themselves feminists and support it are deluding themselves.

I've met a few people like that. Very charismatic, and in one case, absolutely a genius. But very damaged and damaging people.

I do think that men seem less likely to fall prey to gender ideology, and less inclined in general to try and enforce social conformity.

Certainly my own experience has been in my last two employments (same sector), a female boss of about 32 massively into anything identity politics and especially gender ideology, who subjected us all to things like anti-bias training, and currently a 60ish man where I have no ideas about his thought on any of it but he hasn't done any of the things that makes me think he does, now does he seem to have any desire to dictate what staff think.

I will say one horrifically generalised and controversial thing, which is that ime a lot of workplaces with nurses can be kind of socially toxic, in a high school kind of way. ANd of course a lot of nurses are women. There is the chicken and egg question there, but it's something i've noticed enough to take note.

Yes, I think presenting as a woman gives them an extra glamour - in the archaic sense of the word.