Reddit Trans Drama

Sometimes I feel desperately sorry for transmen, sometimes I just think 'you made your bed, lie in it'. Or move back to the sex realist side of the fence and make a new bed.

That puts me in mind of the NUS trans conference, where transwomen were given free taxis because they are vulnerable and transmen had to get there under their own steam, because male privilege 🤦‍♀️

It's one thing to be angry that society imposes feminine expectations on you, it's quite another to realise that while you consciously believe your subconscious is male, your actual subconscious didn't get the memo and carried on following the female social script.

Eliza Mondegreen from the Gender Hacked substack did her masters research on online trans communities (primarily Reddit I think), and she has observed how "feminine"/female socialised the dynamics are in the FTM subreddits.

See this post in particular
https://elizamondegreen.substack.com/p/la-vie-quotidienne-sur-rftm-a-place?utm_source=publication-search

It's a paid post so here's a free link https://archive.ph/6Da9U

From the post:

One of the things that always stands out to me is how distinctly, stereotypically, over-the-top feminine the interaction style is: no shower thought too small or silly to share, every accomplishment—no matter how trivial—celebrated, every slight lamented, and they bond over things like… hating your breasts, hating your period, cute boys (with ‘gender envy’ neatly replacing celebrity crushes), sharing selfies, and swapping fashion tips on how to minimize your hips.

In my experience, gender-critical spaces are full of unconventional women—women who are, ironically, far more unconventional than the women you find in FTM/transmasc communities on Reddit.

I’m not trying to be unempathetic. There’s always a reason why someone is drawn to the idea that they might be transgender and that reason is usually rooted in self-rejection and a painful sense of difference. Once that distress has attached itself to trans, however, absurdities sprout in every direction.

It is a little irritating.

Transwomen demonstrate their obsessive sexualised hatred of women by appropriating what they perceive out clothes and bodies to be, and by trying to deny us control over the spaces we inhabit; transmen demonstrate their obsessive self-hatred by mutilating and drugging their female bodies. Transmen are now claiming to be surprised that the transwomen know TM are female and think that therefore they should be available to service TW in every possible way from ego-tickling to sex.

Are these silly young women going to re-invent feminism 200 years on?

They might start by considering that what constitutes 'inferiority' and 'superiority' goes beyond physical size and strength.

And the whole pack of nitwits think the world should revolve around them because they are so special.

It is.

They will get there I think, even if they end up with everything a woman always was in reality being shifted under the label AFAB and everything a woman never was in reality getting the name "woman", and having a whole rerun of Feminism under the label AFABism to get back what they threw away.

Honestly I've been expecting it to happen for a while.

The big/gap problem for these trans masc AFABs is going to be realising that it's not as simple as The Transwomen Aren't Treating Us Fairly. I suspect there will be a fairly large dollop of I Was Thinking Of What Support You Need, Why Weren't You Realising That And Doing The Same For Me aka female socialisation.

That's going to be a huge headfuck for these AFABs because their entire belief system is based on not being like a girl, on having something innate that makes them different.

It's one thing to be angry that society imposes feminine expectations on you, it's quite another to realise that while you consciously believe your subconscious is male, your actual subconscious didn't get the memo and carried on following the female social script.

Flutter by, buzz in...

This reminds me of a trans poster who used to flutter by on here and demonstrate stereotypically male behaviour while at the same time saying they "wouldn't even know how to act male" because they'd apparently never been one. But the behaviour shone through. That person didn't even recognise it in themself.

You’re probably right there.

They do see it, they're just pretending they don't because they think they're being kind.

I’ve never met a trans woman who didn’t behave 100% in a male way. It’s insane that other people don’t see it.

As the saying goes, there are none so blind as those who will not see...
It would be pathetic if it wasn't so sad (although maybe it is both).

Yes but they're realising that their belief is wrong (maybe, hopefully).

But your beliefs would mean you would see this the other way round; that you were now part of the ‘privileged’ class and directing rage towards those in what you are required to believe is the now most ‘oppressed’ group and therefore such rage is untenable.

I've been reading the responses to the original Reddit post and amazingly some seem to have almost got there and joined up the dots.

"If society admitted that we were vulnerable, it would have to admit that AFAB anatomy puts us in a uniquely vulnerable position. That we are structurally made to be inferior by our biology combined with the behavior of all of society, and that no amount of testosterone or bottom surgery will fix that fact. If we didn’t go through male puberty, we have been permanently stunted relative to what would’ve happened if we had gone through male puberty. And even if we manage to get androgens during puberty, we still have female reproductive organs that are vulnerable in ways that male ones are not. We still face the potential loss of our autonomy through pregnancy, as well as other physical vulnerabilities of having those body parts.
Our existence highlights the uncomfortable fact that women and men aren’t equal, because when we try to be equal, we simply aren’t. In fact, we’re more screwed over than literally any other social group. The more we try to be equal, the more we are punished for it, and more we are exploited. And that highlights the very unpopular notion that women protect themselves by trading aesthetic performance of femininity and reproductive capacity for limited security. That there is no winning, as someone born into default womanhood.
Equal rights under the law should be equal rights to everything that men get. But that’s not what we’re getting. Instead, we’re being silenced, suppressed, and treated like women in all of the negative ways, while denied all of the positive things that are given to women… such as protection… in direct proportion to how much we insist that we are men. Calling ourselves men should not be treated as an invitation to be abused, erased, and silenced. The fact that it is highlights just how little privilege we have."

So a woman joining a group dominated by men raises the issue of sexual assault and is angrily shut down. She wants to discuss this important issue but is repeatedly stopped by aggressive men.

Is this in any way surprising? I feel for her, but sadly her fantasy of a friendly inclusive trans community is as unrealistic as the men’s fantasy of being women.

They just can't help themselves can they?
All the magical spirit woman essence in the world can't stop them acting as entitled males.

So misandry is male hate so I guess they're trying to seem like...inclusive or something? They wrap themselves in knots trying to be "correct" i swear...

They know what they're doing, give men an inch they take a mile.
It's exactly "Emperors new clothes" syndrome, like I couldn't care less how people present themselves but I won't lie to myself or you if you're clearly a man in a dress. Also, being a man in a dress doesn't give you rights to female experience, spaces or adoration.

They’re calling it “misandry” 🤔. I assume they mean misogyny but can’t bring themselves to say it

It's just regular old misogyny in new packaging. Only men are allowed to have actual problems but if a woman talks about an issue its bitching. TIMs are the crèm de la crèm of misogynists so I can't say I'm surprised

Comment here from (I assume) a transman:

'I've seen trans women vent about trans women exclusive issues so many times on this sub (as they should be allowed to !)

So I don't get why we can't do the same ?'

Gosh, that is a head scratcher.

Quite. I wonder if the next frontier in sexist male conquest is pretending to be FTM, given that only females can be so? 🤔