Page 7 | Do people actually believe that trans people have a legal right to only DBS check their new identity?

MyQuirkyTraybake · 07/07/2025 17:31

If someone is a git of various means, why would they worry about something minor like fraud for leaving off their old criminal history soaked name?

Original poster

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 17:30

BundleBoogie · 07/07/2025 17:23

The whole purpose of the special privacy DBS for trans people is so they can lie about their sex.

If they were not demanding the ability to conceal their past there would be no need for the special privileges.

Do you think every man claiming a trans identity (remember anyone can claim this) is 100% honourable and fully understands the need for child safeguarding? I can guarantee there are many men that absolutely are not on board with child safeguarding rules. Why would they suddenly make an exception for this?

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I’m not talking about any of that. I’m only asking why people seem to believe that they have been given the legal right to hide their criminal record by only having to check their new identity.

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GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 07/07/2025 17:29

*trail, not trial. Before you start accusing me of saying people are prosecuted for changing their name, or something equally batshit.

Original poster

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 17:28

PrettyDamnCosmic · 07/07/2025 17:18

That is not what I wrote here or on the other thread. You misquoted & posted lies. You have done the same here. Why not address the points I made instead of launching a new strawman argument?

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I’ve attached a screenshot for you.

You said that 99% of transexuals have changed their names whilst 99% of non transexuals have not changed their names.

Absolutely not true, hence why I ignored you going on and on. Because that’s not true so whatever argument you have from that isn’t worth listening to.

Do people actually believe that trans people have a legal right to only DBS check their new identity?

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GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 07/07/2025 17:27

It's not that they have a legal right to withold it - it's that there is no way of telling if they do!

Jane Smith gets born, BC in name of Jane Smith, gets married,marriage cert in name of Smith to Jones, Jane Jones changes name by deed poll, paperwork in name of Jones to Williams.

All of those documents create a trial, from birth to present day. If she doesn't disclose she was once called Jane Jones, someone looking at that paperwork will see there's a BC for Smith, and a passport for Williams, but nothing for Smith>Williams. There's something missing.

Someone changing their name because they're trans can get a whole new birth certificate. So Jane Smith/Jones could have done any number of horrendous things, but if she then becomes John Williams she'll have a passport and a birth certificate in the same name, with no evidence anywhere she was ever called anything else, and pass a DBS with no flags raised at all.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 07/07/2025 17:24

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 17:16

No. What you said was “99% of transsexuals have changed their name and 99% of non transsexuals have not changed their name”.

Not true. Just like it’s not true that trans people have been given a legal right to leave their name off the DBS application to be checked.

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You know that isn't what I wrote. I was very careful with my words. I even repeated it several times in several different posts that you kept misrepresenting for your on reasons. You have repeated these lies in several posts. Here is what I posted on the other thread.

Almost all male transsexuals applying for a DBS certificate will have changed their name.
Almost no male non-transsexuals applying for a DBS certificate will have changed their name.

BundleBoogie · 07/07/2025 17:23

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 17:07

Last figures I saw where that 30% of transgender people have changed their name legally. In the UK, you don’t have to fill out any forms, you just start using the name.

When I was discussing DBS applications, someone replied saying that “99% of transexuals have changed their name and 99% of non transsexuals have not changed their name” which is simply not true. Women are the largest group of people to have changed their names, and they mostly fall in the “non transsexual” category. They also do a lot of roles requiring a DBS check. Transgender people do not make up the majority of DBS checks with changed names.

Can you link the evidence for saying that trans woman are more likely to lie on the form?

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The whole purpose of the special privacy DBS for trans people is so they can lie about their sex.

If they were not demanding the ability to conceal their past there would be no need for the special privileges.

Do you think every man claiming a trans identity (remember anyone can claim this) is 100% honourable and fully understands the need for child safeguarding? I can guarantee there are many men that absolutely are not on board with child safeguarding rules. Why would they suddenly make an exception for this?

PrettyDamnCosmic · 07/07/2025 17:18

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 17:08

But that’s not what was alleged. The statement was that “trans are legally allowed to leave their old names off, meaning they can hide their criminal history legally and are the only group allowed to do this.”

They are not. They are not allowed to do that. It is fraud, same as any other man or woman who does it.

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That is not what I wrote here or on the other thread. You misquoted & posted lies. You have done the same here. Why not address the points I made instead of launching a new strawman argument?

Fgfgfg · 07/07/2025 17:18

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 16:54

Check what facts?

Do you actually think there is a part on the DBS form which says, “trans people do not need to list their previous names?”

This isn’t a matter of opinion. Go and look at DBS checks for yourself. Trans people do not have legal permission to skip their previous names.

There is no loophole allowing trans people to wipe their criminal record clean just by being trans and using a new name. You are welcome to post the parts of the form which show this is allowed if you think I am wrong.

I am not.

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They can't hide it from the DBS system but they are allowed to hide it from their employer.
Like you I can read government web sites. The advice states that...
The sensitive applications route gives transgender applicants the choice not to have any gender or name information disclosed on their DBS certificate, that could reveal their previous gender identity.

Original poster

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 17:16

PrettyDamnCosmic · 07/07/2025 17:13

I see that the only way that you can advance your argument is to misquote me & then post lies just like you did on the other thread. Perhaps you could re-read my posts a few times then come back & apologise?

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No. What you said was “99% of transsexuals have changed their name and 99% of non transsexuals have not changed their name”.

Not true. Just like it’s not true that trans people have been given a legal right to leave their name off the DBS application to be checked.

OP posts:

BundleBoogie · 07/07/2025 17:14

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 17:03

It has been claimed and vigorously defended by multiple mumsnet users who very firmly believe that trans people have the legal right to leave their old name off the form and therefore avoid the criminal record check, but this would actually be fraud.

There are other issues around it, not denying those. But people are claiming they’ve actually been given the legal right to only use their new identity for the check and hide their criminal past.

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I haven’t seen any of those claims - I must have missed them.

Regardless, the case in Scotland recently where a criminal had his criminal record wiped because of the disconnect between his old male name and new female name. Maybe it was too unexpected for the system to handle, who knows? There has also been acknowledgment from the government that the special and unique privacy privileges given to trans people undermine the effectiveness of the DBS system.

You seem to be intent on arguing that a very specific thing is being claimed by Mumsnet users but is incorrect, which may or may not be the case, but what are your thoughts on the fact that the special privileges given to trans people are knowingly undermining the effectiveness of DBS?

How many failures in DBS checking are acceptable so that trans people can conceal their sex on paper (if not in person)?

PrettyDamnCosmic · 07/07/2025 17:13

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 17:07

Last figures I saw where that 30% of transgender people have changed their name legally. In the UK, you don’t have to fill out any forms, you just start using the name.

When I was discussing DBS applications, someone replied saying that “99% of transexuals have changed their name and 99% of non transsexuals have not changed their name” which is simply not true. Women are the largest group of people to have changed their names, and they mostly fall in the “non transsexual” category. They also do a lot of roles requiring a DBS check. Transgender people do not make up the majority of DBS checks with changed names.

Can you link the evidence for saying that trans woman are more likely to lie on the form?

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I see that the only way that you can advance your argument is to misquote me & then post lies just like you did on the other thread. Perhaps you could re-read my posts a few times then come back & apologise?

BettyBooper · 07/07/2025 17:12

IAmNotASheep · 07/07/2025 17:01

If further checks are required by Ofsted are you not within your rights to request in the application process all previous names. Just as employers often ask for pre marriage names ( hate the word maiden ). A simple caveat that this is required for full Ofsted checks would suffice as justification.

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Yes true, true.

However, lying to DBS is a criminal offence. Lying on an application form would not be (though of course if found out it would probably be gross misconduct). And it could be very difficult to verify if for example someone had changed their birth certificate.

I think it is making checking people harder which is hard enough already.

Original poster

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 17:08

Brefugee · 07/07/2025 17:07

as we kept saying on the other thread: there is no mechanism to force anyone to reveal all their previous names on a DBS check and that is a massive safeguarding issue.

tbh the reason people worry about the trans aspect is that if you will lie about something as basic as your sex, how can we trust you on anything else?

But that’s not what was alleged. The statement was that “trans are legally allowed to leave their old names off, meaning they can hide their criminal history legally and are the only group allowed to do this.”

They are not. They are not allowed to do that. It is fraud, same as any other man or woman who does it.

OP posts:

Brefugee · 07/07/2025 17:07

as we kept saying on the other thread: there is no mechanism to force anyone to reveal all their previous names on a DBS check and that is a massive safeguarding issue.

tbh the reason people worry about the trans aspect is that if you will lie about something as basic as your sex, how can we trust you on anything else?

Original poster

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 17:07

PrettyDamnCosmic · 07/07/2025 17:02

Honestly you would think that even someone with half a brain would realise that almost all male transexuals will have changed their names whereas few men who are not transexuals will have changed their names. Relying on the honesty of men who claim to be women to always report their sexed deadnames when applying for a DBS certificate is very trusting to say the least.

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Last figures I saw where that 30% of transgender people have changed their name legally. In the UK, you don’t have to fill out any forms, you just start using the name.

When I was discussing DBS applications, someone replied saying that “99% of transexuals have changed their name and 99% of non transsexuals have not changed their name” which is simply not true. Women are the largest group of people to have changed their names, and they mostly fall in the “non transsexual” category. They also do a lot of roles requiring a DBS check. Transgender people do not make up the majority of DBS checks with changed names.

Can you link the evidence for saying that trans woman are more likely to lie on the form?

OP posts:

Original poster

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 17:03

BundleBoogie · 07/07/2025 17:01

I’m not sure that specifically has been claimed but the government acknowledged there was an issue with the ease of breaking links with previous names when you have acquired a birth certificate that says you not only have a new birth name but also a different sex.

If a man wants to take up the special privileges offered for trans people and seeks a job with kids for nefarious reasons, I’m sure fraud is a small step. The special rules for that certain group just make it easier for failure to occur.

Yet again, trans people seem not care at all that special accommodations demanded by them remove safeguards for all.

I believe a criminal in Scotland got his history wiped by a similar issue.

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It has been claimed and vigorously defended by multiple mumsnet users who very firmly believe that trans people have the legal right to leave their old name off the form and therefore avoid the criminal record check, but this would actually be fraud.

There are other issues around it, not denying those. But people are claiming they’ve actually been given the legal right to only use their new identity for the check and hide their criminal past.

OP posts:

PrettyDamnCosmic · 07/07/2025 17:02

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 16:30

Doesn’t really make any difference to their point about the law and how DBS checks work. That’s entirely correct, and anyone with half a brain can read for themselves on the guidance (it’s that most people don’t have half a brain and can’t understand it that’s the problem).

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Honestly you would think that even someone with half a brain would realise that almost all male transexuals will have changed their names whereas few men who are not transexuals will have changed their names. Relying on the honesty of men who claim to be women to always report their sexed deadnames when applying for a DBS certificate is very trusting to say the least.

BundleBoogie · 07/07/2025 17:01

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 15:47

Do people actually think that?

To be clear, trans people do not have a legal route to leave their old name off a DBS application, and therefore hide any past criminal activity.

Trans people fill out the same DBS form as everyone else. On that form, it is clear that they must include all past names. If they do not then they are committing fraud.

What they can do is then have the past name redacted from the final certificate, so the employer or organisation will not see it. But all past crimes are shown (if the type of check means they should be shown).

There is no legal route for trans person to fill out the application for a DBS check and leave off their old name from the checking process.

Obviously people can do that. But anyone can. Anyone who has changed their name can leave off their old names, and only send in documentation to support their new name in an attempt to hide criminal convictions. But this is fraud, for trans people or non-trans people. It is not made possible because trans people exists; there have been name changes for a very long time before any trans polices. Criminals have been changing names and lying to DBS for a long time in the hope it doesn’t get picked up. And DBS isn’t really fit for purpose so it can work. But that’s nothing to do with trans people, and trans people do not have permission to do it.

There are many other issues around trans people changing birth certificates and other things, but none of that has any bearing on a DBS check. If they fail to give their old names then it is fraud.

I’m not sure that specifically has been claimed but the government acknowledged there was an issue with the ease of breaking links with previous names when you have acquired a birth certificate that says you not only have a new birth name but also a different sex.

If a man wants to take up the special privileges offered for trans people and seeks a job with kids for nefarious reasons, I’m sure fraud is a small step. The special rules for that certain group just make it easier for failure to occur.

Yet again, trans people seem not care at all that special accommodations demanded by them remove safeguards for all.

I believe a criminal in Scotland got his history wiped by a similar issue.

IAmNotASheep · 07/07/2025 17:01

BettyBooper · 07/07/2025 16:37

As per the other thread, DBS not sharing previous name prevents an employer doing their own checks. Checks required by Ofsted, for example.

This is the problem. It's not just about convictions.

If further checks are required by Ofsted are you not within your rights to request in the application process all previous names. Just as employers often ask for pre marriage names ( hate the word maiden ). A simple caveat that this is required for full Ofsted checks would suffice as justification.

Original poster

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 17:01

BettyBooper · 07/07/2025 16:59

Yes I know.

I was opening the discussion as to what the actual issue is.

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Tell that to @TheOtherRaven who is apparently steadfast that trans people are allowed to apply only in their new name and then hide their criminal record. A few people on this forum seem to be.

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BettyBooper · 07/07/2025 16:59

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 16:55

But now what this thread is suggesting.

Trans people cannot hide their criminal history but only doing a check on their new name. They are required by law to include all previous names which are then checked for a criminal record and those crimes are put on their certificate. They cannot hide past crimes by becoming trans, unless they commit fraud.

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Yes I know.

I was opening the discussion as to what the actual issue is.

Original poster

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 16:55

BettyBooper · 07/07/2025 16:49

I don't think some posters appreciate the amount of background checking that happens when employing someone to work with vulnerable children. DBS is part of it but there's a huge amount more to it.

Because these arseholes can and will use every trick in the book.

DBS getting in the way of these very important checks by withholding a person's name is frankly outrageous.

But now what this thread is suggesting.

Trans people cannot hide their criminal history but only doing a check on their new name. They are required by law to include all previous names which are then checked for a criminal record and those crimes are put on their certificate. They cannot hide past crimes by becoming trans, unless they commit fraud.

OP posts:

Original poster

TruthOrAlethiometer · 07/07/2025 16:54

TheOtherRaven · 07/07/2025 16:48

I'm afraid I am not going to be taking the word of someone who has openly lied on another thread and been caught out. Anyone can claim to be anything here. I for example run the Supreme Court on Tuesdays, and on Thursdays I dust the Tower of London ravens, hence the user name.

OP you would do better to thoroughly check your facts on a range of reputable sources, and be aware that activist ones may contain significantly distorted views and beliefs as well as intentional misleading towards political ends. I believe this loophole has been discussed at high level.

Edited

Check what facts?

Do you actually think there is a part on the DBS form which says, “trans people do not need to list their previous names?”

This isn’t a matter of opinion. Go and look at DBS checks for yourself. Trans people do not have legal permission to skip their previous names.

There is no loophole allowing trans people to wipe their criminal record clean just by being trans and using a new name. You are welcome to post the parts of the form which show this is allowed if you think I am wrong.

I am not.

OP posts:

PrettyDamnCosmic · 07/07/2025 16:52

Shedmistress · 07/07/2025 16:19

You are responding to a man who teaches his kids about kink and bondage so I'd take what he says with a lorryload of salt.

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Alleged kids. Don't forget this is a man who claims that he is a woman. If he lies about that why should you believe anything else he says?