How does it even affect you? Just be kind.

Again, not true.

You realised almost all married women (until more recently of course) have changed their name. And lots and lots of married women apply for DBS checks.

The majority of name changes in this country are not anywhere near to being trans people. Only around 30% of trans people legally change their name. They are a very small percentage of legal name changes. They certainly don’t make up 99.9% of DBS applications.

Millions of people have changed their name. Millions. And any one of them doing a job requiring a check will have applied for DBS.

It is not a loophole for trans people. Jesus Christ. And trans people do not make up the majority of DBS checks with a name change.

It also doesn’t matter because they have to follow the same rules as everyone else!

right, so why are you messing about derailing a thread?

We all saw what the guidance was, that there is special treatment for trans individuals and we have established that nobody at all, but especially trans people, can be compelled to give their names.

In the meantime the thread is derailed. Slow fucking handclap.

That’s the point. No one can. Because DBS is shit. For everyone!!

Not just trans people. Absolutely anyone, any criminal, can get around it. They always could. It has nothing to do with trans people existing and the trans guidance doesn’t make it any easier at all.

This is a DBS being shitty issue. This is not a trans people issue.

That isn’t what I said. Are you deliberately misinterpreting my words?
Almost all male transsexuals applying for a DBS certificate will have changed their name.
Almost no male non-transsexuals applying for a DBS certificate will have changed their name.

ETA of course many women will use married name

Literally all the guidance on how to fill in the form. I’ve done loads of them. It’s quite clear. You must give all your names.

and what if you just... don't? how can you be forced to do that?

I care because i don’t want a man who says he’s ’non binary’ attending a women’s rape crisis meeting.

i particularly don’t want it when he is latter convicted of a sex crime

But anyone can do that. Not just trans woman. Male criminals who remain male can do the exact same thing. And they do. That’s how the police have managed to lose them.

They change their name to a different male name and off they go. They can start a whole new life with that name and once they have the supporting documents with their new name, they can cheat on a DBS check. Trans people existing doesn’t affect that. At all.

Anyone can take on a new identity and not declare the old one. You don’t need a birth certificate for a DBS check. Trans people being able to change their birth certificate doesn’t give them an advantage over non-trans people when it comes to DBS because it isn’t even needed. There is no “trans loopholes” and trans people did not create an opportunity for criminal to exploit. It was always available and they have exploited it.

You don’t need to send in a birth certificate. you can use other documents. If they are in your new name, then DBS will never know about your birth name. Criminals can hide their birth name; they don’t need to pretend to be trans to change their birth certificate in order to use this loophole. You don’t need to provide your birth certificate.

The issue isn’t trans people being the only ones who can cheat. The issue is that it is far too easy to cheat, and anyone can do it. Nothing at all to do with trans.

DBS relies on people being honest. Anyone at all can change their name, get their supporting documents in their new name, and apply for DBS only using their new name. If trans people didn’t exist, and there was no trans guidance at all… nothing would change. It would be the exact same issue. Anyone can cheat DBS, it has nothing to do with trans people and it isn’t helped by trans guidance because trans guidance has no affect.

I agree. An adopted individual has no choice in the type of birth certificate they have. Why should those stating they are changing gender be able to hide their past. A birth certificate records SEX not Gender.

I agree that there is a lot of misunderstanding about the special unit that handles trans dbs applications. As you say, those using it ARE declaring their previous identity.

The problem is that trans people can take on a new identity and not declare it and chances are the old ID wouldnt be picked up.

This matters because trans women have the same offending rate as men in general and we know that most violent and sexual crime is committed by men.

Women may well be able to hide a previous ID through marriage. But they aren't so much the ones the dbs system is trying to identify.

Right, again, that’s not the issue the OP is talking about.

It is an issue, but it actually doesn’t affect the DBS thing which is already a mess.

Changing identify may come with a whole other bunch of problems. I’ve not argued against that.

The OP claims that the only reason criminals can lie on a DBS check is because trans people exist. That is 100% not true. She simply doesn’t understand what she is talking about. Or even what the trans guidance allows for.

Trans people and trans guidance has zero impact on how the DBS process is cheated by criminals. And trans people are not given special treatment when filling out the form.

How does that work if you have an entirely new identity new birth certificate and everything? When I was DBS checked i sent in my birth certificate and a couple of bills that was it

That's not what that statistic says.

It says "out of all trans people (about 0.5% of population) 99.99% of them will have changed name)"

"out of all non-trans people (about 99.5% of population) 99.99% will not have changed their name)". (although I suspect more than 0.01% of the non-trans population have changed name, especially if you include change of surname on marriage).

It doesn't say that the majority of name changes are trans people.

Calm down dear...
Little girls should be seen and not heard...
She was asking for it...
Be kind...

All the same.

''Although the government has acknowledged the safeguarding loophole created where registered sex offenders are able to change their name by deed poll, the ability to change identity in a more fundamental way, by simultaneously changing both name and gender, remains unaddressed.''
kpssinfo.org/dbs-checks-identity-verification/

What? That’s not true at true. Majority of name changes are not trans people.

And quite obviously, a criminal wanting to try and hide their history would just go and change their name for that purpose. They wouldn’t become trans. A man can change to another man’s name. You don’t need to declare yourself trans and trans guidance doesn’t make any difference whatsoever to how it works. Trans guidance is not what allows for this loophole. It has always been around.

It’s a trans loophole insomuch as 99.9% of transsexuals will have changed their name while 99.9% of non-transsexuals will not have changed their name.

My daughters are adopted. They suffered neglect and abuse as babies and are left with the ongoing effects of their early trauma. I may not be happy with a trans woman in the ladies toilets- for them it is a trigger which sets off their fight/flight system and they have a panic attack. Their hypervigilance in public places is off the scale. They deserve to know that the ladies is a safe place for them. They are triggered at such a core level, they are not able to rationalise what is happening - the panic hits them like a truck. They need the scaffolding of single sex spaces and without having to be on edge all the time in case they encounter a man. They both have special needs too and need information presented in a clear, consistent way using vocabulary they understand - the idea that men can be pregnant or that terms like "chest feeders" or "everyone with a cervix" are incredibly confusing to them.

It’s years since I applied for an Enhanced DBS certificate as I subscribe to the annual update service so I couldn’t recall exactly how it was done. Are you saying that the sponsoring organisation gives you the form & you fill it in privately & then you send it off to the DBS?

@Shedmistress
You are completely right to be frustrated with DBS being so antiquated. It is far too easy to cheat. For anyone. Anyone at all. I’m a woman. If I had a criminal record, I could change my name to a different female name and apply for job who want to run a DBS, I could then fill it out with my new name (after getting all my supporting documents changed to my new name) and then do my DBS without mentioning my previous name. I might get away with it if nothing flags up. Woohoo; clean DBS under a different name. No mention of trans anywhere, no help at all from some made up trans loophole. Just a terrible DBS service.

That is the issue which you are mad about.

I don’t know why you think it’s only possible due to trans guidance. The trans people using that guidance are actually the trans people who ARE declaring their old names… because they’re calling up and asking that their old name is not shown on the certificates sent to their employer. Which means they provided their old name. So the trans people using that guidance aren’t trying to cheat DBS and hide a criminal history.

The trans guidance does not allow fraud the way you seem to think it does.

Yes, no one is arguing with you about that. It is a huge issue, absolutely. But has nothing to do with using trans loophole.

They have nothing to do with each other. You do not need to pretend to be trans. Being trans doesn’t give you special treatment. Anyone can change their name and cheat on a DBS. It is a huge issue.

It is not due to the trans guidance, which has nothing to do with it.

I fully support tightening up the rules on name changes around safeguarding for everyone, with “trans people” being subject to exactly the same checking process, no “special” route.

No, you fill it in yourself for the organisation. But you can speak to DBS and your old names won’t be shown to them. They just see the certificate at the end of the process, with the names redacted.

Anyone at all can fill it in without their old names and try to cheat. Has absolutely nothing to do with trans guidance. That literally only affects the old names being shown on the certificate at the end.

um… no. You’re really not understanding.

Criminals changing their name and cheating on DBS checks happened way before transgender guidance. It literally had absolutely nothing to do either it.

The transgender guidance makes no difference to the application. All it does is allow you to call up and ask that your old names are not given to your employer doing the check. That’s it. That is all it does. It has nothing to do with the actual application; all it does it leave your old names off the certificate.

The application process is the same as it always has been. You fill it in and must include all your names. However, they have no way to check. Any criminal at all can change their name to anything, without declaring themselves trans, and fill in the application without including their old name. They might get caught, they might not. If not, then they get a clean DBS. Anyone can do that. They always could. You don’t need to claim to be trans, you never did. You only need to change your name, which has been easily done for decades. The trans guidance is new. They are not linked, at all.

It literally has fuck all to do with the trans guidance or the sensitivity in application.