How does it even affect you? Just be kind.

But we are not talking about these other, fraudulent people. We are talking about trans people with a new ID.

They dont even need to bother going to the measures these other fraudsters do.

Other fraudsters always run the risk of being caught. That their fraudulent applications will be discovered.

A trans person will never be caught out like the fraudsters because we as a society have handed them the new ID on a plate.

Sure they have not revealed the old ID and that's an offence.

But they haven't even needed to create a false trail like the fraudsters.

There is a world of difference.

It's worth pointing out (again), that the whole 'Be Kind' mantra in this respect requires that women be kind to men identifying as women and not the other way around. I would love to know why trans women are never required to 'be kind' to women.
But to get specific about how it affects me personally:
I have been involved in feminist groups and discussions since I was a teenager. I have now been to two meetings (one about abortion rights), the other a panel, in which I had to be escorted in by the police, and was filmed by men as I went in. All women who want to talk about feminist issues are affected by this.
I know that my job may be at risk if I whistleblow about inappropriate behaviour from any man identifying as a woman, as he might just call me a terf
The political party I belong to has repeatedly expelled women for talking about sex and gender. I no longer feel secure that I can raise issues relating to women without making it much harder to participate politically in public life.
I can no longer be sure of getting same-sex intimate care one day when I am frail and no longer able to advocate for myself.
I can no longer be sure of getting same-sex respectful intimate care in the event of needing a smear or if I were in the unfortunate position of being raped. If I did respectfully request it, I can no longer be sure that I wouldn't be labelled a bigot and have my request overruled or used in hospital training documents as examples of 'bigotry'
I can no longer be sure of getting same-sex intimate searches if I were in the unfortunate position of being sent to prison.
I can no longer be sure that if I were in that unfortunate position, I would have the right to not be locked up with a male rapist.
I can no longer be sure that my 12yo niece will have her privacy respected and be allowed to get changed away from the boys or even adult men who decide they want to be in the same room when she gets undressed.
I know that whenever I partipate in any sport, the rankings may be skewed in favour of any man who feels like joining. This will always be negative, always in favour of the man and affecting every woman who participates, bumping her down the list.
I know that if I stay quiet, I will be labelled 'cis' by default which is a dehumanizing and sexist label that I simply don't accept.
I know that if I raise any of these issues, I am at risk of being labelled a terf and publicly excoriated for it.
And of course, every single one of these things affects every single female person in this country.
This is a fucking long list and it's not even comprehensive. So yes, personally it affects me but there is no woman in this country who isn't affected by it. And this is why I have never seen so many women so very angry.

You do not need to send in your birth certificate so you do not need to show your birth name. You can send in supporting documents only showing your new name. That’s how this fraud is committed and has nothing at all to do with trans people. And there is no way to connect you to your old name as DBS don’t do that. They use the information you provide. That’s always been the case, fraud has always been possible, nothing at all to do with trans people or trans guidelines.

Yes the OP still thinks that trans people are legally allowed to leave their previous name off the check and therefore hide a criminal record. Despite being told many many times that she is wrong and has misunderstood that the guidance is allowing for.

No one can legally leave their names off and therefore hide a criminal record. Anyone at all can commit fraud and that has nothing to do with being trans. But trans people cannot legally leave their name off the form and hide a past criminal conviction. They can have their previous name redacted from the certificate shown to the employer, but that’s it. Their past criminal activity is not hidden.

But other ways of changing your name have a track back to the old one. If you change your name by deed poll, adoption or by marriage, you dont get a new birth certificate. You send in your old birth cert and the adoption certficicate, marriage certificate etc.

A new trans ID gives you a new birth certificate with no connection to the old ID.

This is fundamentally different from the other examples.

There is NO way to connect it to the previous ID.

No, they can’t! For fuck sake, get it through your head.

They cannot (legally) leave their name off the DBS check. They cannot (legally) hide a criminal record. They do the form the same as everyone, with all their previous names (unless they are committing fraud). The certificate will come back showing all relevant crimes.
The only difference the trans guidance allows is that their previous name is then removed so the employer doesn’t see it.

Their criminal record is still check the same as everyone else.
Their record is still shown the same as everyone else.

The only way they can hide it is by committing the same fraud anyone else can commit.

What don’t you understand?

I know very well the point you are arguing. You have stated it many times, quite clearly.

Seriously you have beat this drum all morning.
We get it.
You disagree with how the OP worded her post and how she feels about the impact of this paticular issue regarding DBS.

There are many other issues that have been mentioned do you care to address them or are you just going to continue to derail your thread with repetitive posts?

I obviously read too many detective novels!

No, I couldn’t have because the whole thing I’m arguing about is your point that “trans people are allowed to leave their old names off, meaning anyone can say they are trans and be allowed to leave their old names off and hide a criminal record.”

Everything you said was wrong. Other posters have put in information which is correct and they have a problem with, but also had nothing to do with your initial assertion.

What you claimed is totally wrong.

I recently had reason to attend a hospital stroke unit to sit with an old friend.

In the bed next door was a woman, perhaps in her 90's. She had had a stroke and was obviously very frail, confused and frightened. She had likely been born in the 1930's, lived through the second world war, seen Elizabeth's coronation, seen life

A nurse came and told her that she needed to have her catheter changed. They pulled the curtains around her. She asked them what they were doing, pleaded with them to stop and eventually started weeping quietly. A second nurse was called who tried to calm her down but she just kept pleading for them to stop. I left - it was not right for me to invade this woman's privacy

Some medical staff within the NHS claim that it would be entirely acceptable for this vulnerable woman to be attended by a biological man whose self-image was that he was female. A man who feels that his self-image is more important than the dignity of a vulnerable female patient.

No, I am not directly affected by the man's lies but to ignore his actions would not be 'being kind'

I’m sure that is an issue for certain roles. But that’s not the point I was arguing. I was correcting the OP for saying (and continuing to say) that trans people are the entire reason that DBS fraud is possible.

Is it an issue that a person's birth sex and previous name(s) can be omitted from the DBS info that a Safeguarding Officer sees? In my opinion, it is. How can you do safe recruiting if you can't check someone's internet footprint because everything before a particular year is effectively hidden? DBS checks don't go looking for this sort of thing - they are just concerned with what the police know.

And you didn’t feel able to complain? No judgement but not feeling able to complain is also an issue

Should my elderly DM be allowed to request that her catheter and other intimate care is only performed by a biological woman?

There are some absolute whoppers on this thread.

99.99% of DBS checks with a name change are apparently from trans people.

The only reason DBS check fraud is even possible at all is because there is recent trans guidance which only affects what name is displayed on the certificate. And you can only commit this fraud by claiming to be trans.

Absolute donkeys making this shit up.

Yet, people are meant to take this place seriously.

A few weeks back in Edinburgh, corner Princess Street - Waverly Station, tall bloke with beard in a gold lame skirt was talking to two early 20s women, very likely tourists (pretty sure Germans) who both had forced smiles on their faces and avoided looking down where the thin fabric of the skirt didn't manage to hide his erection. I wish I'd had stopped to tell them that they don't have to play along with this and to just walk away.

I think for me it went

There are a small number of men who want to be treated as women so will wear a dress and call themselves a female name. Be kind to them and don't stop them having jobs or be hateful to them and call them by their preferred name. - seems fair enough, why would we want to upset people if they aren't harming anyone then crack on.

Somehow that turned into

They are literally women who are women just because they say they are (no need to attempt to pass or take any surgeries or hormones). They are allowed in every female protected space regardless of what stage they are in their transition and if you tell them no you are a hateful bigot and are literally killing them. They are allowed to take your prizes, your scholarships, your funding. You must enable them to join your single sex groups even if it is something like breast feeding as otherwise we will ban the group from forming. You are no longer women or mothers who breast feed babies - you are cis women, birth givers and chest feeders. Female language no longer exists. If you feel uncomfortable with a penis in the women's changing rooms then that is your problem and you must be re-educated to accept these special women. Some men will try and use these new special women laws to infiltrate into women spaces for sexual and criminal reasons but they are a small number and the women and children affected are legitimate collateral damage to enable these men to not get hurty feelz. Your feelings are no longer important, only their feelings are.

This is when most women went - wtf?

That was in response to you saying that they were ALLOWED to do it.

No one is allowed to leave names off. If they do then it is fraud. Being trans does not give you any special rights whatsoever when it comes to a DBS check.

It is obviously possible for anyone at all to attempt to commit fraud. They can change their name, get their supporting documents changed to evidence that new name and then apply for a DBS check without giving their old name. That is fraud, for a trans person or a non-trans person. But people (criminals) do it.

It’s always been done, long before any trans guidance or trans people being allowed to change their birth certificates. The fact that people commit fraud and cheat on DBS has absolutely nothing to do with trans people existing or trans guidance existing. Literally nothing to do with it.

Anyone can commit fraud. It is still fraud. Trans people are not allowed to, which you claimed they were.
Trans guidance is not the reason this fraud is possible, which you claimed it was.

They have nothing to do with each other.

Do some trans people commit this fraud? Yes.
Do some people with a criminal record commit this fraud? Yes.

Do you need to claim to be trans to do this? No.
Does trans guidance open up a loophole? No. It was always there.

they literally have special treatment in that their former names will not be revealed to their employer. This service is offered to only trans people.

The name change loophole has been closed for registered sex offenders, but not for registered sex offenders who change their legal gender identity.

The system could be fixed by using NI numbers, which remain unchanged.

https://www.womensgrid.org.uk/?p=23593

This is why. Your comment is why I keep replying. Because that’s not what the guidance does. They don’t have extra special treatment, they don’t benefit anymore than anyone else, they certainly don’t benefit more than criminals.

The OP claims that the only reason this is possible is because trans people exist. That is 100% wrong. Absolutely and completely wrong. Trans people existing has nothing whatsoever to do with how people cheat DBS and how criminals get around it.