Let Women Speak Free Your Face Event

Posie Parker isn't a "western feminist".

It’s not the law to wear the Burkha in Iran.

Oh I see it was organised by Posie Parker….

I think there is a way of Western Feminists to support muslim women’s rights activists (both those who are Western and also outside the West.)

White Saviourism is not the way to do it though.

And what is this?????

This would probably have more value if there were actual muslim women involved.

That photo really is “eeeesh”.

https://theweek.com/60339/things-women-cant-do-in-saudi-arabia

Bit hard to find info on Saudi's rules for clothing. There's this:

'The black abaya (a full-length loose fitting robe) and niqab (full-face veil) were once emblematic of the restrictions placed on Saudi Arabian women, and those who strayed from this dress code were subject to harassment from religious police. However, Crown Prince bin Salman has repeatedly emphasised that the abaya and head coverings are not mandatory. In a 2018 interview with US news programme "60 Minutes", he said that Saudi men and women alike should wear "decent, respectful clothing" in accordance with cultural and religious norms, but that, beyond that, clothing choice was "entirely left for women". That perspective is reflected in a public decency law introduced in 2019, which requires "modest" dress for both sexes but only specifies “loose clothing” that covers both elbows and ankles.
The vast majority of Saudi women continue to wear the abaya and a head covering. Patterns and colours are becoming a more common sight, as are open abayas over the top of Western-style clothing.
Footwear choices are "generally unrestricted", said Fact Crescendo, and "make-up is widely accepted, with an emphasis on subtle, sophisticated looks".
There is, however, "no verifiable evidence" from official Saudi government sources, news outlets, or bin Salman himself about a further relaxation of clothing rules for women, despite claims that "have circulated about a new announcement in 2025".'

@TomeTome It’s about how SOME men use religion to control women

...and the particular control we are talking about today is the niqab and the burka. Now describe to us which men are placing women in a fabric prison without using words that describe their ethnicity or religion. Impossible, isn't it?

The grooming/rape gangs scandal has taught us that if you cannot describe where the problem might originate, then you cannot begin to solve it.

I am no longer scared of the -phobia or the -ism words. I stand for women's rights. All UK women, of all ethnicities and beliefs.

What exactly should we be tolerating that we don't? Practices such as polygamy, FGM, muta marriages, honour killings. Please be specific - what do you want me to tolerate you don't think I do.

You don't need to put foreign in quotation marks.

They are foreign by definition.

of, from, in, or characteristic of a country or language other than one's own.
"foreign currency"

Islam is foreign to the British Isles.

Do you take up the problem of religious men controlling women with those religious men who control women?

Would they listen to you or allow you to say it?

Is it? What's your basis for this assertion?

A man has just been jailed for setting fire to a Koran. The new Hate Crime Act in Scotland extended to conversations in the home. One could say the UK is becoming less tolerant of criticism of religion.

I can't say off the top of my head but you can look it up. I know there are an increasing number of Islamic countries who have banned it.
But if a country is secular in terms of it's laws it doesn't mean women have a free choice and are not coerced by religious leaders and family members.

Today in parliament.
"I asked the Secretary of State for Justice - Shabana Mahmood - to condemn a Muslim matchmaking website that enables men to search for “virgin brides” seeking “under 35 shy untouched spouses” or a second or third wife. Judge her response for yourself. There is absolutely no place in Britain for this."

https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1942562390240903672?t=3na4rOdPtuXMRyRGJbEY0A&s=09

Khadija Khan gives an excellent interview.

We talked about a UK-based website that gives Muslim men instructions on how to procure virgin wives and beat them into obedience. We are living in precarious times…

https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1941855905118879776?t=S-YeXnnVCvDP8WfAJMIbEA&s=09

I know it’s the law to wear a burka in Iran and Afghanistan. Is it the law anywhere else?

No I meant to write non-atheist, apologies. What I meant was the UK (IMO) is becoming ever less tolerant of religions they see as and races they see as “foreign”.

Some men use religious reasons for terrorism. It may be only some men but every single one of us lives with the terror. That's why it's called terrorism. Their religious beliefs have them inflict terror on us. The same men and the same religion terrorises women with these prisons on their person.

We can all see what this terrorism looks like.

There's nothing irrational or phobic about fearing this terror.

The 7/7 bombers holy beliefs are the same holy beliefs that trap women in these individual prisons.

I feel that terror every time I get on the Jubilee line, get on a plane and every time I see these prisons on women.

Calling me racist is nothing.

Do you think it's possible to address "some men' without specifying which religion, which controlling behaviour in which circumstances?
Sounds like whataboutery to me. This thread is about the niqab and giving a voice to women. I still don't understand why you think women are not entitled to that voice.
Yes there are other kinds of anti women rules etc in religions but I can't think of more egregious ones than in Islam and Sharia law.

Are the racist and islamophobic posters in the room with us now? Or do they go to a different school forum?

It’s about how SOME men use religion to control women. I’m sure we’ve all watched the situation with Christianity in the US.
I’m not going to allow you to police my language @Imnobody4 but I take on board that you are finding my terminology weighted and it’s making it hard for you to interact. In the same spirit can I suggest that “weasel words” is unhelpful

This is a summary of the the American security changes, which is replicated around the world in target countries.

http://www.phl.org/newsroom/911-security-impact

I imagine if you were very young then you wouldn't know that this global protection from Islamic terrorism exists for that reason.

I'm not an expert, but there certainly seems to be a pattern. In many Islamic countries, governments have become more hardline. Perhaps certain sects are becoming more powerful/prominent, the Wahhabi sect from Saudi Arabia wields a lot of influence, for example.

This article comments on Muslims in the UK, but noticeably, although it is fairly wide ranging, it doesn't even touch on or mention the situation of women.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/13/the-identity-politics-of-many-muslims-and-critics-of-islam-are-deeply-corrosive

I'm not sure who made this video, but it illustrates how dress has changed for women throughout the Muslim world, some of it very recent.

Women in the seventies in Iran, Afghanistan, had more freedom than they do now. And of course, dress is just one, more visible aspect. Women being controlled affects women in Afghanistan etc in far more ways than the burkha, but it's a very striking illustration.

The problems with Islam are not limited to the control of women and their opportunities.

Airport security around the world changed over night after the Twin Towers terrorist attack. "Islamophobic" security the world continues to use to keep people alive.

It's not a phobia. It's entirely rational.

Actually it's about how religious authorities interpret Islam i.e. those with power to do so and power to implement laws.
Please avoid the weasel words Islamophobia, rascist and fascist if you want a discussion.

No I think the problem is with particular cultures/countries use of religion. What do you think? I think when the focus is on”Islam” it attracts a lot of racist and islamaphobic posters but the issue isn’t the religion it’s how that religion is used to control women and their opportunities.

TomeTome
Have you read any of the messages yet. I'd love to discuss them with you.

To summarise your post @TomeTome

Because you didn't feel you were losing agency by wearing a mask, wearing a veil is not an issue.
Because we know one happy Muslim on either side, it doesn't exist.
And it's just a bit of material after all.

Impressive.

edited for word change