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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Let Women Speak Free Your Face Event

216 replies

IwantToRetire · 07/07/2025 01:12

We will all walk to Speakers' Corner at 2.00 and read out the testimonies of women who speak about the niqab. I have something visual planned so we can elevate the voices of women who exist in a fabric prison, often, of their familys construction.

On the day I will hand out copies of testimonies for women to read at the heart of Speakers' Corner. We need as many women as possible to attend. This is your chance to show you care.

From https://www.letwomenspeak.org/event-details/let-women-speak-london-free-your-face-2025-06-29-13-00

Had not heard about this, but now there are a number of responses to the event such as this one:

In Keen’s , Muslim women are portrayed as passive, voiceless, and trapped by family, culture, and male insecurity. The veil is a “fabric prison,” and the women behind it are posited as unable to speak, act, or even “feel sunlight on their skin” without male permission. Their desires, commitments, and beliefs are never considered on their own terms. Instead, they are rendered legible through the eyes, imagination and political desire of Kellie-Jay.

The few “testimonies” —attributed to women in the Middle East—were anonymous, unverified, and clearly cherry-picked. It’s hard to believe that Keen’s public pronouncements on “Islamism” elicit nothing but thank-yous and confessions of helplessness. Of course, as an activist and propagandist, she’s under no obligation to include
counterarguments or opposing views.These testimonies function as a moral shield, allowing Keen and Let Women Speak to deflect critique with the familiar refrain: “These aren’t my words…” Indeed, her X/Twitter feed is awash with anonymized grateful wards, caged in fabric. These women are cast as mute victims—unable to interpret or change their own lives—and, by implication, grateful and dependent on these liberated English roses to speak for them.

https://morbidsymptom.substack.com/p/veilface?

DM coverage https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14858363/Moment-womens-rights-campaigners-Niqab-veil-free-face-London-protest.html

(Sorry if there is a thread about this already but couldn't find anything. If there is one please post link. Thanks.)

Veilface

Enjoy Orientalism! Disavow Genocide!

https://morbidsymptom.substack.com/p/veilface

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ArabellaScott · 10/07/2025 15:56

inkognitha · 10/07/2025 13:45

National statistics show that South Asian females under the age of 24 are 2 to 3 times more likely to commit suicide than their Caucasian counterparts.

That's a frightening statistic. And the silence around it is even more frightening.

It is, it's absolutely shocking.

Imnobody4 · 10/07/2025 15:44

I'm just putting this here for info.
https://dailysceptic.org/2025/07/10/rayner-backs-down-in-islamophobia-free-speech-row/

Angela Rayner has backed down on “secretive” plans for a new definition of Islamophobia, expanding and extending a public consultation on the proposals, after the Free Speech Union threatened legal action. The

The consultation will now run for an extra week and a link for responses to the plans has been made public.

Rayner Backs Down in Islamophobia Free Speech Row – The Daily Sceptic

Angela Rayner has backed down on "secretive" plans for a new definition of Islamophobia, expanding and extending a public consultation on the proposals, after the Free Speech Union threatened legal action.

https://dailysceptic.org/2025/07/10/rayner-backs-down-in-islamophobia-free-speech-row/

inkognitha · 10/07/2025 13:45

National statistics show that South Asian females under the age of 24 are 2 to 3 times more likely to commit suicide than their Caucasian counterparts.

That's a frightening statistic. And the silence around it is even more frightening.

ArabellaScott · 10/07/2025 12:54

thenoisiesttermagant · 10/07/2025 12:35

It's always going to be worse than reported in any statistics.

Especially when we're not allowed to talk about it for fear of being branded racist or bigoted in one way or another.

One of the findings in the Casey audit was that the data was completely inadequate often specifically because it had deliberately not been collected either at all or collected in a meaningful way. This was because of lack of will to do so because of the political climate (and the fact seemingly no-one gives a toss about violence and harm to girls).

There are two things to consider.

First the abuse, second the cover ups.

Datun · 10/07/2025 12:45

ArabellaScott · 10/07/2025 12:08

It's worse than that, I'm afraid.

https://www.haloproject.org.uk/honour-based-violence-W21page-3

'Nationally there are approximately 12 -15 reported honour killings per year in the United Kingdom.
14th July marks the national day of remembrance for ‘Britain’s Lost Women’, those who have been murdered by their families in the name of honour.
The statistics do not take into account the many people and school children who are taken abroad and do not return and their whereabouts are unknown. Neither do they reflect the nature of the abuse that can often be non-violent but nonetheless threatening and frightening to the point where you can’t make a single decision about your own life.
National statistics show that South Asian females under the age of 24 are 2 to 3 times more likely to commit suicide than their Caucasian counterparts.
In England there have been a number of female suicides normally by fire and also murders of South Asian women and children.'

Anyone objecting to a blunt, ballsy, doesn't give a fuck woman standing up and pointing all this out, is no friend to women.

Likewise claiming she's doing it for herself her own aggrandisement, her own agenda, or money.

Even suggesting it marks you out, as far as I'm concerned. Whether you like her or not, no one can deny how much danger she has placed herself in, the risks she's taken, and the attacks she has suffered. From being almost trampled to death, to covered in soup and being arrested.

As far as I concerned, if she's standing up for women, she can aggrandise her arse off while she's doing it.

WithSilverBells · 10/07/2025 12:40

thenoisiesttermagant · 10/07/2025 12:35

It's always going to be worse than reported in any statistics.

Especially when we're not allowed to talk about it for fear of being branded racist or bigoted in one way or another.

One of the findings in the Casey audit was that the data was completely inadequate often specifically because it had deliberately not been collected either at all or collected in a meaningful way. This was because of lack of will to do so because of the political climate (and the fact seemingly no-one gives a toss about violence and harm to girls).

💯And useless organisations like the BBC did not do due diligence on the stats, even though respectable people were calling foul

thenoisiesttermagant · 10/07/2025 12:35

ArabellaScott · 10/07/2025 12:08

It's worse than that, I'm afraid.

https://www.haloproject.org.uk/honour-based-violence-W21page-3

'Nationally there are approximately 12 -15 reported honour killings per year in the United Kingdom.
14th July marks the national day of remembrance for ‘Britain’s Lost Women’, those who have been murdered by their families in the name of honour.
The statistics do not take into account the many people and school children who are taken abroad and do not return and their whereabouts are unknown. Neither do they reflect the nature of the abuse that can often be non-violent but nonetheless threatening and frightening to the point where you can’t make a single decision about your own life.
National statistics show that South Asian females under the age of 24 are 2 to 3 times more likely to commit suicide than their Caucasian counterparts.
In England there have been a number of female suicides normally by fire and also murders of South Asian women and children.'

It's always going to be worse than reported in any statistics.

Especially when we're not allowed to talk about it for fear of being branded racist or bigoted in one way or another.

One of the findings in the Casey audit was that the data was completely inadequate often specifically because it had deliberately not been collected either at all or collected in a meaningful way. This was because of lack of will to do so because of the political climate (and the fact seemingly no-one gives a toss about violence and harm to girls).

WithSilverBells · 10/07/2025 12:32

National statistics show that South Asian females under the age of 24 are 2 to 3 times more likely to commit suicide than their Caucasian counterparts.
Doubly shocking. One, that it is true. Two, that I never knew that. My bad, maybe ... but still.

quantumbutterfly · 10/07/2025 12:13

ArabellaScott · 10/07/2025 12:08

It's worse than that, I'm afraid.

https://www.haloproject.org.uk/honour-based-violence-W21page-3

'Nationally there are approximately 12 -15 reported honour killings per year in the United Kingdom.
14th July marks the national day of remembrance for ‘Britain’s Lost Women’, those who have been murdered by their families in the name of honour.
The statistics do not take into account the many people and school children who are taken abroad and do not return and their whereabouts are unknown. Neither do they reflect the nature of the abuse that can often be non-violent but nonetheless threatening and frightening to the point where you can’t make a single decision about your own life.
National statistics show that South Asian females under the age of 24 are 2 to 3 times more likely to commit suicide than their Caucasian counterparts.
In England there have been a number of female suicides normally by fire and also murders of South Asian women and children.'

In England there have been a number of female suicides normally by fire ...

I remember as a child there were terrible burn victim statistics because of the flammable nature of many traditionally flowing garments. Some were not accidents.

ArabellaScott · 10/07/2025 12:08

WithSilverBells · 10/07/2025 11:50

According to Karma Nirvana there are 12 'honour based' killings in the UK per year.

I'm quite shocked by that. It's a killing of one person (some are men) a month.

It's worse than that, I'm afraid.

https://www.haloproject.org.uk/honour-based-violence-W21page-3

'Nationally there are approximately 12 -15 reported honour killings per year in the United Kingdom.
14th July marks the national day of remembrance for ‘Britain’s Lost Women’, those who have been murdered by their families in the name of honour.
The statistics do not take into account the many people and school children who are taken abroad and do not return and their whereabouts are unknown. Neither do they reflect the nature of the abuse that can often be non-violent but nonetheless threatening and frightening to the point where you can’t make a single decision about your own life.
National statistics show that South Asian females under the age of 24 are 2 to 3 times more likely to commit suicide than their Caucasian counterparts.
In England there have been a number of female suicides normally by fire and also murders of South Asian women and children.'

Honour Based Violence in the UK

Helping victims of Honour Based Violence and advising agencies on good practices for dealing with women and men that are at risk. Call us on 01642683045

https://www.haloproject.org.uk/honour-based-violence-W21page-3

quantumbutterfly · 10/07/2025 12:04

Datun · 10/07/2025 07:50

It's postmodern scepticism of universalism

I want to say that was on the tip of my tongue...

😂

WithSilverBells · 10/07/2025 12:01

thenoisiesttermagant · 10/07/2025 11:54

Yes, it looks to be mostly women but some (I think mostly homosexual) men.

It is shocking and cannot be brushed off as a non-issue. If this is actual murders, what is the scale of other abuse?

Agreed. Surely it cannot be argued that they were happy to be killed because they freely chose that aspect of their culture?

thenoisiesttermagant · 10/07/2025 11:54

WithSilverBells · 10/07/2025 11:50

According to Karma Nirvana there are 12 'honour based' killings in the UK per year.

I'm quite shocked by that. It's a killing of one person (some are men) a month.

Yes, it looks to be mostly women but some (I think mostly homosexual) men.

It is shocking and cannot be brushed off as a non-issue. If this is actual murders, what is the scale of other abuse?

WithSilverBells · 10/07/2025 11:50

According to Karma Nirvana there are 12 'honour based' killings in the UK per year.

I'm quite shocked by that. It's a killing of one person (some are men) a month.

thenoisiesttermagant · 10/07/2025 11:36

According to Karma Nirvana there are 12 'honour based' killings in the UK per year. There will be vastly more women abused and forced to do various things (marry, wear certain clothes, not go out to certain places, FGM etc).

That's just in the UK. But we also should speak up for the women of Afghanistan and Iran (and other countries) whose voice is daily silenced.

quantumbutterfly · 10/07/2025 11:30

Datun · 10/07/2025 07:00

As an aside, I'm quite tickled by the new let women speak logo.

It's London Weekend Television, isn't it 😄

Edited

I remember the days. Thames during the week.

WithSilverBells · 10/07/2025 10:30

In a liberal democracy we should be able to discuss what goes on in our own country and in other countries around the world. I would say we have a duty to do that. From the responses that KJK has received it would seem that there are a lot of veiled non-UK women who want us to do that. I am also concerned that there might be women in the UK who are in a similar position. The choice is not between discussing these sorts of issues and not discussing them. The choice is about where the discussion takes place. Freely, in the open, where everyone can listen and take part or secretly online in all the dark corners where the violent men who have their own unpleasant agenda lurk.

ArabellaScott · 10/07/2025 10:00

sashh · 10/07/2025 07:04

My problem with Hijab, Niqab, religious clothing is that if a woman chooses it then that is fine.

I went to schools run by the Sisters of Mercy, they wore a black dress and a black veil. No one seemed to have a problem with that.

Some of you will probably say, "Oh they say it is a choice but..." but I have known white women, brought up in a broadly Christian way who have converted (or reverted if you prefer) to Islam who choose to veil.

I know there are few if any Amish in the UK but why are we not bothered by their oppression? I follow someone on YouTube who was brought up 'old order Amish' and then left. If he wants to visit his mother he has to wear his old Amish clothes.

Choosing to enter a nun's order is not even remotely comparable to girls being told/encouraged/made to wear a scarf or veil from a young age.

And yes, Islam comprises all races. We've been saying that all along!

Some women choose to veil, for sure. But choices are not made in a vacuum. Some countries force women to veil, and some women are subject to varying degrees of suggestion and coercion to cover up.

It is a complex issue and there are many aspects to it. What it shouldn't be is off limits to discuss, because women are not in the UK, or are a different race, or religion. Women who care about other women discuss all sorts of things that affect other women, of all races and religions and from all over the world.

WithSilverBells · 10/07/2025 09:58

Annoyedone · 10/07/2025 09:09

But hold on… I have been told women MUST speak up and support poor oppressed males with trans identities. Or were evil nasty bigots supporting genocide. So which is it? Am I supposed to support people whose cause is not mine or am I not?

You are supposed to support males in whatever they want, including anything that oppresses women. How do men get certain left-wing women to do this? They tell them that the men are very vulnerable and marginalised or that the men are non-white or that the men are from certain ethnicities or religions. It's a kind of Top Trumps with women scoring lowest in every category.

ArabellaScott · 10/07/2025 09:53

Annoyedone · 10/07/2025 09:09

But hold on… I have been told women MUST speak up and support poor oppressed males with trans identities. Or were evil nasty bigots supporting genocide. So which is it? Am I supposed to support people whose cause is not mine or am I not?

Just the male ones.

ArabellaScott · 10/07/2025 09:52

thenoisiesttermagant · 10/07/2025 09:26

Can I suggest anyone who thinks KJK's activism on this isn't pure enough, instead of spending energy on hating KJK and her supporters pop over here for a look Our strategy – Karma Nirvana

Is this organisation pure enough? Sadly a lot of the women's stories featured here aren't alive to speak up for themselves.

'Honour Based Abuse is not widely recognised as a form of domestic abuse. It is often misunderstood or dismissed in the name of ‘culture’ or ‘tradition’. As a result, it remains hidden.'

And THAT is shocking. THAT is what has led to women and girls being ignored and disbelieved and discounted and outright attacked when they've raised their stories of abuse.

thenoisiesttermagant · 10/07/2025 09:26

Can I suggest anyone who thinks KJK's activism on this isn't pure enough, instead of spending energy on hating KJK and her supporters pop over here for a look Our strategy – Karma Nirvana

Is this organisation pure enough? Sadly a lot of the women's stories featured here aren't alive to speak up for themselves.

thenoisiesttermagant · 10/07/2025 09:17

Datun · 10/07/2025 06:07

I've seen it before on here. Women being told they cannot speak on behalf of other women.

It means you get absolutely nowhere. How can you make progress when the only people whose voices you're willing to listen to are those who can't speak.

THIS.

If you have a purity spiral that means you only are willing to listen (or pretend to listen) to people directly affected, then you are failing women who know if they speak up in their own name they will likely be hurt or killed by members of their own family.

Annoyedone · 10/07/2025 09:09

But hold on… I have been told women MUST speak up and support poor oppressed males with trans identities. Or were evil nasty bigots supporting genocide. So which is it? Am I supposed to support people whose cause is not mine or am I not?

inkognitha · 10/07/2025 08:45

It’s gorgeous!! Have a great day!

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