Non binary

Agree with pp on the gay points. Working with teenagers, I have seen - admittedly in girls- that kids who think they're gay often seem to switch it to pansexual or non binary pretty quickly.

In real life very few people fit neatly into one of the binary sex stereotypes. Do you, OP?

The difference between people who declare a non binary identity and most other people is that they tend to think they're different to others. They might look at, for example, a woman wearing makeup and caring for young children, and decide that she must fully "identify" with the regressive gender stereotypes associated with being female.

Because it's often younger people with less life experience pushing this belief system, there's no analysis or deeper understanding of the insidious nature of gender/sex role stereotypes, of how much choice women truly have, or of the systemic disadvantages women still face in society.

12 year olds are by definition immature and self absorbed and that's fine! Adults pushing this belief system could be dangerous as unfortunately the loudest iteration of trans ideology is the one which doesn't believe in safeguarding.

I'd take this situation as a reminder to: check whether you're inadvertently pushing sex stereotypes yourself; check the settings on your internet and what he's looking at; check the staffing of any activities; get your kid out in the world - volunteering perhaps? - meeting less fortunate people, being physical, help him understand that other people are not mere regressive caricatures.

"I've looked it up online darling and I'm non binary too!" Then change the subject.

"Be really clear that being gay is fine - non-binary can be a way of avoiding complicated feelings and changes."

I think this is a really important point. While most of us sort-of-know what our sexual orientation is early on, not all of us are emotionally mature enough to know that the thing we're feeling is our sexual orientation because we're not mature enough to feel like sexual beings. Our childhood understanding of human categorisation as 'boys' and 'girls' is the framework through which we understand the world, so if we think we are experiencing things that don't fit the 'boy/man' stereotype because (e.g.) we are not attracted to girls, we may interpret this as meaning we're not really a boy/man when actually it means we are fully a boy/man but a (minority) gay one rather than a (majority) straight one.

I'd make as little fuss as possible, and quietly keep him away from internet resources and groups that would seek to draw him further into this nonsense. There are too many dodgy people out there enthusiastically offering to help and guide young people and their motives are not pure.

Op does he really understand what non binary means? When my dd was in year 6 a few years ago, she was friends with a girl who said she was all sorts of different gender and sexuality labels, then dd started saying she was pan and despite my attempts to explain what that actually meant, she just didn’t have the cognitive ability at 10-11 to understand it properly at that age. Pre and early puberty is such a confusing and unsettling time, all these big feelings and changes but they’re not mature enough yet to actually understand it all. I’d do a bit of research as pp have suggested and then chat to your ds about what his understanding of being non binary is and why he thinks he’s nb. Discuss labels and as others have already said, the fact that most of us are nb because we’re all different and don’t fit into these silly sexist stereotyped boxes of what it is to be a boy / girl / man woman. Ask him questions about his friend and why they think they’re nb - do you know this friend at all? I’d be concerned about any negative influence, what if the friend is persuading or pressuring your ds in any way to feel he’s nb too? Kids like to feel bonded, part of a group and have a sense of belonging, it’s what makes gender ideology so easy for them to get sucked into. He may feel it deepens the friendship to say he’s non binary too. I hope he hasn’t been persuaded to think this because he’s not a sport loving, competitive, alpha type of boy. Does he have hobbies and interests?

I’d also check what he’s looking at online, who he’s talking to etc, as with many other things out there now, it’s an absolute minefield what kids are coming across and being exposed to on social media, and in things like discord groups that often go undetected by parents. It can start with gender identity and not fitting silly stereotypes, and no wonder so many kids get sucked into the cult of trans through the online world.

I’d say he doesn’t need to put any kind of label on himself, he’s so young, he just needs to be himself, and will hopefully come to realise gender ideology is a harmful way of further enforcing gender stereotypes. My dd is 14 now and thankfully her and most of her friends came to realise this and now think it’s madness that there are 70 something different gender identities

There are some excellent recommendations upthread for resources and to do some research on this so I won’t repeat them (apart from the one suggesting the so called professional who says babies can tell you they’re trans 🙄)

And pretty much everyone else.

This is why I usually read the whole thread before posting.

Was just so demoralised by the thought that kids are being encouraged to label and pathologise themselves as "different" in this way.

Ha! As ever, someone says it better than me in far fewer words.

Wot Thatsrhesummeroverthen sez, above.

Exactly that, in fact - it was what led me to realise my feminist bent.

Be cautious over his internet access. Try to make sure that ‘non-binary’ doesn’t become the only thing that he focuses on as he develops his identity - is he an athlete, a drama bod, a stem person, an environmentalist, an entrepreneur, a creative etc? It is very easy, especially with internet echo-chambers to become all consuming which limits development of other aspects and a founded personality. A key part of the ‘non-binary’ and ‘trans’ stuff is finding a group to belong to, and part of that is believing that everyone else is against you, that as a group you are struggling together in an unfair world.
Keep him busy, join some clubs. Don’t be negative but be questioning , ‘I don’t really understand, what is non-binary?’ ‘What makes you think that?’ . Be really clear that being gay is fine - non- binary can be a way of avoiding complicated feelings and changes.

I think it's very natural that young people (very young, in this case) who feel they don't necessarily fit into sex stereotypes should hear about "non-binary" and feel drawn to it as a rejection of those stereotypes.

Of course it doesn't change the sex you are, and hopefully most people come to realise you can challenge stereotypes without rejecting your maleness or femaleness.

When my son (daunted by genderism) said to me that my generation had not had 'non-binary' people to deal with, I said that we did but they just had a different label then. When he asked what we called them, I said 'Normal'. And the penny dropped for him.

In the end most people are cis, and they never spent a second of their life seriously questioning it.

I actually suspect this is something with which many posters here would disagree. I do wonder if it's another key difference between the male and female experiences of growing up.

Many girls are deeply uncomfortable with their bodies in their teenaged years - not just a superficial, Adrian Mole, awkward curiosity, but a visceral unease or even dislike.

And for most of us here, this also came with a deeply-felt sense of being "different" or even "wrong".

My teenaged years were defined by a stoical, troubled resistance to flirting and make-up and dresses and gossip. I detested the way my peers succumbed to it, and found it degrading to be associated with them - found it degrading, at times, to be female, in fact. If "non-binary" had existed then, I'd have clung to it like a deceptive life raft. Deceptive, because it would have confirmed my conviction that I was somehow fundamentally different.

Because I wasn't. It was simply that teen hormones + a highly sexualised society was working its ugly magic on my peers, and I recognised and felt uncomfortable with that. I was no more, or less, female, or girl, than they were.

The thought that I could have been inveigled into the kind of support groups or counselling Aida suggests above, simply as a result of resenting bodily changes that highlighted my physical vulnerability, and feminine stereotyping, is horrifying. No longer been simply an independent thinker, oh, no. Instead, not "matched" with my body. Part of a tiny minority who could benefit from actual therapy because of my entirely natural resistance to the box society's representation of my female body was trying the squeeze me into!

I could very easily say I'm non-binary now. I actually think I fit the definition. Unease with my body in some respects - yes. With gendered roles in many (all?) respects - hell, yes!

If I am non-binary, though, where does that leave everyone else? As a contented, signed-up member of a neat "gender binary"? There's really no such thing. (Except perhaps for a dysphoric trans person, whose resistance to their birth sex is so absolute that the define themselves in opposition to it?)

Anyway, to my mind, to say I'm non-binary would be to uphold an artificial binary that does no one any favours.

It's such a bizarrely absolutist way of thinking. It feels so very reductive and regressive.

Love your username

That’s nice dear. So am i. And everyone else ie no one fits 100% into gender stereotypes

On the other hand, there are only 2 sexes…

It is a shame that distinctive music sub-cultures are no longer a thing amongst young people. Music has become thoroughly commercilaised and digitised to the point where it exists as nothing but background sound now.

Non binary/trans is really the only sub culture available

What is non binary? Not agreeing with the sexist characteristics of the sex binary? If that's the case I'm non binary. I'm not feminine, short hair, live in jeans or shorts. I grew up in the 70s and 80s and things are definitely getting more sexist. There's a lot more trying to fit into boxes now and if you don't fit with the masculine traits then you can't be a boy/man. Best thing is just to say sex doesn't define you as to your characteristics it is just a biological fact. He can be anything he wants, kind, caring, considerate, quiet.

Goodness. At 12 I knew I didn't fit in with a lot of stereotypes of femininity. Thank goodness that just led me to realise I was a feminist, not that I was non-binary! How many people feel comfortable with gender stereotypes, and feel it fits them perfectly? Very few I would think

There's now a huge crossover with emo/trans/non-binary etc - still all about young people feeling different, that they don't belong, and seeking identity.

I took my DD to a My Chemical Romance concert a few years ago and you've never seen so much blue hair in one place in your life 😄

People here are parents, grandparents and many have worked with children and young people in their profession.

Young people of that age are starting to form their identity as individuals, away from the family unit...they naturally seek to experiment or try on different 'clothing'. Young people have always done this; everyone here has done this.

'Non binary' is just the latest label or identifier in a long history of such things. The main danger with it, though, is that it potentially leads young people into radical surgeries and the taking of substances that are actively damaging or harmful to their bodies -and with life long consequence -in pursuit of something that is not true.

Everybody is the sex they are. That is just a fact. What has " fitting" got to do with anything? Who 'fits' their sex? What does that even mean?

Non binary is a recent term and framing device for young people who want to reject heavy gender stereotyping; or who want to feel. a little exploratory or edgy. 15 years ago they would have come out as an Emo, and a few years before that as a Goth. Both of these youth subcultures permitted space for boys and girls - young people -to experiment with clothing and style in unconventional ways, and listen to music which stimulated the emotions...especialy the angsty ones or the more brooding ones.

I'd tell him, as a ppl suggested, that he'll always be a boy/man but he can be any kind of boy/man he wants.

I'd also point out that if non-binary means not entirely aligning with the stereotypes associated with one sex or the other, then almost everyone in the world is 'non-binary', so it really doesn't need a label. It's not some kind of separate category of human.

Children who declare what has been called 'gender incongruence' or 'gender questioning' identities can be at risk of attracting the attention of groomers.

One main story one often hears is that anyone with an identity of this type is at risk of being rejected by family/friends/society. This can be used to push alienation and encourage distance from family, friends, and support networks. As most parents recognise, this can be part of or a precursor to grooming.

OP, I would not worry overly about this, in most situations and probably in your situation, it's most likely to be a minor thing. Listening to and talking with your child and allowing him to come to his own conclusions in his own time is greatm and sounds like you've handled it well.

However, as Helle says upthread, it would also be sensible to inform yourself more about 'gender questioning' and 'gender identity' so that you have a better understanding of the issues involved.

All children are by definition vulnerable, but some are more so, and there are people who are keen on accessing vulnerable children. Always have been, always will be.

Part of the problem is the narrative that any parent who asks questions or sets rules or boundaries is 'rejecting' the child, and this is supported by potentially risky narratives like 'children know best', as a poster upthread suggests.

Children cannot know best. They think they know best, and adolescence is a risky stage precisely because of this. The naivety of being so innocent they don't even know that they're innocent.

No one suggested this child is crazy. Although one poster did suggest therapy, most people would think that's pretty OTT for a child going through a phase.

I really don’t think some posters put much thought into the platitudes they repeat such as ‘id suggest asking your DC as they are the only one who understands their situation entirely’.

It is seriously concerning to see this kind of advice given about identity. What 12 year old understands their situation entirely? They can only understand it from a 12 year old’s perspective.

And it is rather enlightening considering that poster hadn’t bothered to read the thread. Where they would have picked up posters giving advice on how to judge whether someone’s advice was likely to be balanced and good parenting.

It was great timing as just another example of poor quality advice from posters who seem to have entrenched prejudices. And not in the way they meant it.

However, these posts provide a very useful demonstration for OP of the kind of thing that women/mothers on this board are discussing.

Also, they're 12.

What 'understanding' do you think they're bringing? Beyond, 'my friend has said this'.