Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What do whips, spandex and dog masks have to do with Pride?

331 replies

SnugglyJumpersMakeItBetter · 05/07/2025 18:30

They're kinks/fetishes right? Not related to sexual orientation. Also why are they anything to be 'proud' of? Your closest friends would probably find it pretty odd (and stomach turning!) if you told them your OH likes to wear your undies, or what gets you off is him licking your feet... Why is proclaiming what should be personal and private turn-ons to the general public any better? Why should they be glad for you in any way for being so open about it?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
BundleBoogie · 06/07/2025 12:58

My kids are with me and my wife at many prides, kink is involved, it's never a problem. Just like topic of sex is never a problem in our house, neither is the topic of kink sex. If they are old enough to ask, they are old enough to get an answer, as detailed as they are willing to keep asking.

So no concept of appropriate boundaries around children. While utterly horrifying, it is useful to have it written down. In the future when we have legions of damaged kids, at least we will know what went wrong. Sadly Social Services have a big blind spot in this area so can’t be relied upon to intervene.

BundleBoogie · 06/07/2025 12:26

AidaP · 05/07/2025 19:55

There is no "consent for looking", same as no one has to consent to read this opinion you posted here, despite being wrong and filled with some hate seeping through.

You like freedom of expression to hate and pearl clutch, others use it to be themselves.

And yes, there are many straight and mono people at pride purely for the kink part of it. It's part of the Q - queer. LGTBQIA+ is the full alphabet if you are curious, intersex and asexual/armoantic for the last 2. And plus in case something was missed out.

That also was part of pride since the very beginning at stonewall.

And yes, there are many straight and mono people at pride purely for the kink part of it.

So Pride is definitely not a family friendly event as it is often marketed.

If these adults can’t be trusted to keep their fetishes behind closed doors, let’s at least make sure that future Pride events have an 18+ rating to people are aware.

BundleBoogie · 06/07/2025 12:21

AidaP · 05/07/2025 19:38

And hey, if you like walking around nude, there are nudist parades in the UK too, seriously, go join them!

You are saying they should be ashamed, that's what it means when you push it away from the public and into behind closed doors. But PRIDE was, is and always will be the place to express yourself and be met with love and acceptance. Within bounds of the law of course, no one will have a full on sex on the parade.

Your "safeguarding" is more like attempt at censorship, as I guess there is nothing worse than a kid learning that using whips or chains can be fun, and that enjoying it is not something that they will be shunned for, but instead that there is whole group of people enjoying what they are enjoying.

You know, you do you, but actually do you, not just "the you that I accept and like".

I have couple of kids fyi, since you are trying to climb that high horse, loving kids that no one taught hate, instead they learn to accept and cherish people who are a bit queer and different, not clutch their pearls online.

Your "safeguarding" is more like attempt at censorship, as I guess there is nothing worse than a kid learning that using whips or chains can be fun, and that enjoying it is not something that they will be shunned for, but instead that there is whole group of people enjoying what they are enjoying.

Are you aware of the proximity of your post to non contact child sexual sbuse?

From the NSPCC
“Non-contact abuse is where a child is abused without being touched by the abuser. This can be in person or online and includes:

  • exposing or flashing
  • showing pornography
  • exposing a child to sexual acts”

a kid learning that using whips or chains can be fun, = sexual acts.

One of the signs of a child being groomed for sexual abuse is sexualised behaviour, language or an understanding of sex that's not appropriate for their age

I would suggest that a child knowing how adults use whips and chains for their sexual pleasure falls into this category.

myplace · 06/07/2025 12:04

NotBadConsidering · 06/07/2025 10:21

Imagine though if someone tried to set up a festival and parade dedicated to Kink, say every March, and it wasn’t disguised under the Pride banner in June. There’d be uproar. People wouldn’t do it and people wouldn’t stand for it. But put a rainbow on it and anything goes.

Edited

I no longer see Pride as about gay rights and deserving of support. It’s not the wholesome parade of families with two mums or two dads. It’s not parents walking with their adult gay offspring to demonstrate acceptance.

So if that’s no longer what it is, why should anyone support it?

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 06/07/2025 11:23

KnottyAuty · 06/07/2025 10:43

Sorry off topic - is there a thread about Vaishnavi Sundar's film “Behind the Looking Glass”?

Here you go:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5151159-premiere-of-trans-widows-film-on-friday-30th-aug

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 06/07/2025 11:21

KnottyAuty · 06/07/2025 10:43

Sorry off topic - is there a thread about Vaishnavi Sundar's film “Behind the Looking Glass”?

Think so - hold on, will check…

Barbie222 · 06/07/2025 11:19

not a nice thread but it’s definitely shining light where it’s needed.

DialSquare · 06/07/2025 11:19

Sunlight is a disinfectant and I really can’t think of a thread that has needed disinfection more than this one.

SionnachRuadh · 06/07/2025 11:15

This thread has got more red flags on it than a May Day parade in Beijing.

Though they definitely wouldn't tolerate that sort of thing in China.

LikeWhoUsesTypewritersAnyway · 06/07/2025 11:14

I agree. It's utterly grim. 😖

DialSquare · 06/07/2025 11:13

I feel like this after reading this thread.

shudder GIF by Chicks on the Right
RedToothBrush · 06/07/2025 11:12

But apparently I'm the one who 'spits at gay people and trans people'.

Good stuff.

It's not at all stealthy.

We see you.

RedToothBrush · 06/07/2025 11:10

Barbie222 · 06/07/2025 10:25

Here’s a few questions I’m imagining cropping up:

Mom, why is it ok for that man to be hitting the other man? It’s naughty to hit people.

Mom, why is that man touching the other man under his pants? You shouldn’t touch people under their pants.

Mom, can I get a collar and a lead like that for my friend?

"Yes" says Daddy. "It's ok to hit other people. I'll even show you who, son. We are going to go disappear from the main march and confront a 'bunch of terfs' who dare to hold their own lesbian protest away from the main event because they believe in biology. Oh what fun pride is. Oh damn unfortunately there aren't enough to kick so let's go see the Drag Queen and her Puppies now"

Kendodd · 06/07/2025 10:56

KnottyAuty · 06/07/2025 10:31

Emma Thomas was 11 when her father told her that he was a transsexual. She lived with him for the next 7 years while he went through that transition and later as an adult she set up the Children of Transitioners in 2019. She talks about finding other children of transitioners like her who describe the same behaviours repeating again and again from a particular “cohort of men”.
http://childrenoftransitioners.org

She assumed her group would be speaking to a tiny minority of people but has been surprised at how many families are affected. She’s concerned that while she grew up in the 1980s that social workers and the NSPCC understood that sexual fetishes were a red flag, these days she is concerned that if there’s a trans parent, that aspect is ignored. The parent is affirmed before any concern for the child. So if a child needs help there’s nowhere to go - the NSPCC, schools, social workers, the police - no one will help the child… it’s really chilling to listen to.

She talks about her dad’s trans journey “you loved this more than you loved me.” and having to grow up as a child with that feeling. She was exposed to sissy porn and other sexualised behaviour but was brought up with it as normal. She buried her experiences and would have described herself as an ally until she processed what happened and became a TERF.

“This man has fallen in love with this idea of himself as a woman. There's no part for you, no part for wives or children in that dynamic.”

You know, it is narcissus in love with the mirror, in love with the reflection. You are pushed aside, and that's where the grief comes in, because you've lost that person. But then the paradox is, you know, with my dad, he says, that time that you were, that I was your dad, and you loved me, that uncomplicated time was all a lie. And [dad says] I wasn't happy, and now I'm happy. he's happy, but you're not in there. So you lose not just the present, but you lose the past as well, don't you?”

Over the years she came to view his behaviour as abusive - using family income to fund his transition; the family were homeless for a time.

She talks about concerns for children in cases reported in the media then buried - in the US where there were 5 TIMs in a house and one was dead and the police found a group of children hidden in the house. “What was happening there?” “Where were the mothers?”

“And one thing that I'm wondering is, where is the safeguarding in that? Because there's a lot of sexualized stuff happening. You're exposed to quite a lot. I was, and my dad wasn't even particularly extreme. But I saw sissy porn. I saw the Beaumont Society newsletters and things like that.

I know that there are children who see much worse, who are exposed to fathers dressing in hypersexualized ways. This is a sexual thing. What the police knew in the past, what social workers knew in the past, was this was a sexual thing, transvestite fetishism. But now, it's a civil liberties issue,”

“What's been really lovely is the sisterhood that has listened. And Vaishnavi Sundar's amazing film, which I mean, Behind the Looking Glass, was the first time that we're in a film when we have a voice. Because there were so many films about the men who transition and the women who transition.”

There’s a discussion about breastfeeding by TIMs and the view that this is child abuse.

“What concerns me obviously is, it's as if you're a child of a trans person, and it's okay to do that to you. Because somehow you affirm the man and in all the women, right? And that's your point. That's what you're there for. You're just there for the affirmation. You have no agency of your own.

You're not an individual human being. You exist to affirm. I mean, there's one case where it wasn't even a father.It was a grandfather who has helped to lactate into his grandchild's mouth. And the people writing the paper who were all very, very supportive were saying, oh, well, it's helped them bond. Well, my grandfather didn't need to do that to bond.

And for God's sake, he bought me a bike. That's how we bonded. He taught me how to ride a bike.”

Lots more discussed but those are some of the key points. I found it very moving

From Inciteful Sisters: Episode 11: Emma Thomas and Children of Transitioners, 20 Mar 2025
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/inciteful-sisters/id1802508941?i=1000700176286&r=2481
This material may be protected by copyright.

Thank you

KnottyAuty · 06/07/2025 10:43

Sorry off topic - is there a thread about Vaishnavi Sundar's film “Behind the Looking Glass”?

akkakk · 06/07/2025 10:32

Hell, no one even asked, but no, I am not part of any kink, just happy transbian with my very cis wife and lovely children. But many of my friends are, and we have them, and their kids, over a lot too.

mmm - so man married to a woman - sounds like a heterosexual relationship…

presumably all the labels are being used to validate sexual perversions?

when labels are used to act as double negatives you know they are covering something else up… transwoman = man pretending to be a woman / lesbian = woman with woman … transbian = man pretending to be a woman with a woman… remove the pretence and it is simply man with woman…

so why the need for all the subterfuge and labelling? What is the psychology behind that?

like others on here I have a lot of experience with safeguarding - what is being described is off the scale red flags - at the least it is grooming / inappropriate exposure to sexual stuff not suitable for children.. the concern obviously is whether it has gone further - there seem to be no boundaries…

KnottyAuty · 06/07/2025 10:31

Kendodd · 06/07/2025 09:39

Can you summarise it please?

Emma Thomas was 11 when her father told her that he was a transsexual. She lived with him for the next 7 years while he went through that transition and later as an adult she set up the Children of Transitioners in 2019. She talks about finding other children of transitioners like her who describe the same behaviours repeating again and again from a particular “cohort of men”.
http://childrenoftransitioners.org

She assumed her group would be speaking to a tiny minority of people but has been surprised at how many families are affected. She’s concerned that while she grew up in the 1980s that social workers and the NSPCC understood that sexual fetishes were a red flag, these days she is concerned that if there’s a trans parent, that aspect is ignored. The parent is affirmed before any concern for the child. So if a child needs help there’s nowhere to go - the NSPCC, schools, social workers, the police - no one will help the child… it’s really chilling to listen to.

She talks about her dad’s trans journey “you loved this more than you loved me.” and having to grow up as a child with that feeling. She was exposed to sissy porn and other sexualised behaviour but was brought up with it as normal. She buried her experiences and would have described herself as an ally until she processed what happened and became a TERF.

“This man has fallen in love with this idea of himself as a woman. There's no part for you, no part for wives or children in that dynamic.”

You know, it is narcissus in love with the mirror, in love with the reflection. You are pushed aside, and that's where the grief comes in, because you've lost that person. But then the paradox is, you know, with my dad, he says, that time that you were, that I was your dad, and you loved me, that uncomplicated time was all a lie. And [dad says] I wasn't happy, and now I'm happy. he's happy, but you're not in there. So you lose not just the present, but you lose the past as well, don't you?”

Over the years she came to view his behaviour as abusive - using family income to fund his transition; the family were homeless for a time.

She talks about concerns for children in cases reported in the media then buried - in the US where there were 5 TIMs in a house and one was dead and the police found a group of children hidden in the house. “What was happening there?” “Where were the mothers?”

“And one thing that I'm wondering is, where is the safeguarding in that? Because there's a lot of sexualized stuff happening. You're exposed to quite a lot. I was, and my dad wasn't even particularly extreme. But I saw sissy porn. I saw the Beaumont Society newsletters and things like that.

I know that there are children who see much worse, who are exposed to fathers dressing in hypersexualized ways. This is a sexual thing. What the police knew in the past, what social workers knew in the past, was this was a sexual thing, transvestite fetishism. But now, it's a civil liberties issue,”

“What's been really lovely is the sisterhood that has listened. And Vaishnavi Sundar's amazing film, which I mean, Behind the Looking Glass, was the first time that we're in a film when we have a voice. Because there were so many films about the men who transition and the women who transition.”

There’s a discussion about breastfeeding by TIMs and the view that this is child abuse.

“What concerns me obviously is, it's as if you're a child of a trans person, and it's okay to do that to you. Because somehow you affirm the man and in all the women, right? And that's your point. That's what you're there for. You're just there for the affirmation. You have no agency of your own.

You're not an individual human being. You exist to affirm. I mean, there's one case where it wasn't even a father.It was a grandfather who has helped to lactate into his grandchild's mouth. And the people writing the paper who were all very, very supportive were saying, oh, well, it's helped them bond. Well, my grandfather didn't need to do that to bond.

And for God's sake, he bought me a bike. That's how we bonded. He taught me how to ride a bike.”

Lots more discussed but those are some of the key points. I found it very moving

From Inciteful Sisters: Episode 11: Emma Thomas and Children of Transitioners, 20 Mar 2025
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/inciteful-sisters/id1802508941?i=1000700176286&r=2481
This material may be protected by copyright.

Barbie222 · 06/07/2025 10:25

Here’s a few questions I’m imagining cropping up:

Mom, why is it ok for that man to be hitting the other man? It’s naughty to hit people.

Mom, why is that man touching the other man under his pants? You shouldn’t touch people under their pants.

Mom, can I get a collar and a lead like that for my friend?

NotBadConsidering · 06/07/2025 10:21

Imagine though if someone tried to set up a festival and parade dedicated to Kink, say every March, and it wasn’t disguised under the Pride banner in June. There’d be uproar. People wouldn’t do it and people wouldn’t stand for it. But put a rainbow on it and anything goes.

ArabellaScott · 06/07/2025 10:19

AidaP · 06/07/2025 09:49

"Mom, why are those people doing X?"
me: Well, apparently they enjoy it, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Not sure why do you think any of that leads to child services intervention. It may offend your 1920's fake puritanism, but that's about it.

Some people enjoy things that are wrong, illegal, and harmful.

This isn't okay.

Children need to be taught boundaries. Children need to be protected.

SuffolkMare · 06/07/2025 10:17

lifeturnsonadime · 06/07/2025 10:15

Actually a lot of them are heterosexual men.

The've just co-opted gay rights.

Yes. There’s a fine example of this in this very thread.

lifeturnsonadime · 06/07/2025 10:15

Mischance · 05/07/2025 21:00

Heterosexuals with kimky tastes do not gather to march the streets and tell everyone about it - they just get on with it. We simply do not need to know!

Actually a lot of them are heterosexual men.

The've just co-opted gay rights.

RedToothBrush · 06/07/2025 10:13

In the last couple of days ive been told that I'm homophobic/ transphobic and spit on gay / trans people and it's been has suggested I'm one of the 1920s puritans here.

Some posters are really really are barking (sic) up the wrong trees making those comments.

And trying to deflect from that flag waving ceremony they are performing.

CorvusPurpureus · 06/07/2025 10:05

Aida's kids allegedly calling him 'mom' is not helping me to think that he is a safe person for any small child to discuss kink with, tbh. They're being gaslit before they ask about the blokes pulling each other around on leashes.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 06/07/2025 10:02

Its also weird when you went straight to assaulting…