Violent trans rights protest in Manchester.

I agree.
I wish TRAs would bog off. They are immensely unhelpful.
I wish trans people weren't being fed a line that they are likely to be hated and attacked "just for existing" when obviously that isn't generally the case. Though any trans person reading this board would be getting the message that they are all tarred with the same brush as the extremists amongst them.

I do think that trans people "just existing" shouldn't have to specifically say they disagree with attacking women or throwing piss or be assumed to be radical. And I do think there is a great deal of conflation on these board of ordinary trans people quietly living with trans criminals, trans activists etc in a way that stokes dehumanisation and radicalisation.

This is fairly standard behaviour at any gathering:

No, but whether you like it or not it is a hallmark of the “trans rights” movement globally.

Thanks for sharing this video. I watched it and also Mr Menno's which is a good companion as it shows other angles and context.

It's also interesting to see other protests happening on the same day and to compare protestor behaviour and police presence.

The thing which has struck me most is that they were seemingly only heckled very lightly and filmed by a small number of people before some of them responded aggressively. And yet when women have tried to meet and hold events either in public or even private, they have withstood much more extreme interference without becoming aggressive.

For what it's worth I don't think the heckling is necessary as the billboard and simply being present and filming what is said and trying to engage with people (like Mr Menno did) do the job of bringing things into the open.

She is the ‘partner ‘ of a very loud angry bloke in a dress ( who hadn’t bothered to shave for the event). She says nothing and stares mainly at the ground throughout the vid. He says plenty.

She needs rescuing, really

Because much as a trans rights activist might like to make claims about 'passing' and it being hard to tell, etc, and feminists might argue about this point, when the average man in the street sees a man pushing or hassling a woman, all of the convuluted theories about 'gender presentation' and 'ambiguity' and androgyny etc will go out the window.

Average blokes will not like to see men hassle women.

In fact, I wonder if this male aggression that trans rights activists go on about is something we haven't looked at closely enough.

Trans rights activists claim male aggression is a huge problem for transwomen. I can imagine it might be. And part of that might be homophobia. I wonder if part of it is also that many men will have strong ideas about men who attack or harass women and children. And that certainly seems to be the narrative this chap filming is presenting.

Trans rights activists claim that this is prejudice. It might be. In some instances, like the one filmed here, it might just be a man who is observing, and sees men hassling/kettling/pushing women, and adults advocating for puberty blocking children, and drawing his own conclusions.

The other thing I was going to say was that up until recently we've mostly seen 'trans rights activists' (a better phrase than 'trans activists' as it is clearer that these people are not necessarily 'trans' themselves) heckle and attack women's rights meetings.

Women and feminists have rarely done the same in reverse. As we see here when the two women are spotted as disruptors, they are surrounded, kettled, pushed, and apparently punched (although as noted we didn't see that on film).

But what is clearer (to me) is the point of view of the man filming, and many onlookers.

Trans rights activists are not shy about attacking women. This is what the chap filming notices. They are far less forward in arguing with him, or any of the other blokes who are observing the march. Unsurprisingly, I wouldn't pick a fight with a big burly bloke, either.

If the trans rights activists are making a name for themselves as a movement that is targeting children and attacking women, and that is being noticed by the average big burly chap in the street, that is unlikely to go well for them.

I think that's fair comment.

As I said upthread, most of these people on this march were not violent or even aggressive, although aggressive tactics are so frequently seen in 'trans rights' demos (especially when they are organised to 'counter protest' things like women's rights meetings) that it certainly does seem to be a unifying feature of trans activism.

It looks to me like a march organised without notifying the police (otherwise it would have been policed), which can end up with this kind of chaotic event prone to confrontation and possibly violence.

It's always been fairly clear in discussion on this board that 'trans activism' doesn't necessarily consist of or even involve trans identifying people. Many of the worst, most aggressive 'trans activists' are just blokes in balaclavas who want to terrorise women. Various 'antifa' people etc.

You are on a discussion forum where you have had ample opportunity to condemn the actions of TRAs yet you haven't done so. Just saying that the majority of "trans" people don't agree with what TRAs are doing doesn't cut it.

Completely understand your point.
However it doesn't mean that we should cease criticising an ideology that's openly removed the rights of women and girls, has deliberately targeted children with the "born in the wrong body" nonsense and is only just realising that imposing their niche world view on society using the tactics of #nodebate and accusations of bigotry to anyone who mildly points out that sex is binary is not winning the hearts of the majority. It's why the footage of the Netflix Dave Chapelle demo is very instructional - several years later the identical tactics are used by the group in Manchester - also in evidence outside every single women's meeting / conference in recent years.

While some people will of course say things that may be unfair, it's transactivists who target people raising concerns about the sterilisation and mutilation of the young, it's transactivists hounding people out of their jobs. And the silence of every trans lobby group about the overrepresentation of paedophiles and sex offenders in the demographic is very telling. To the extent that anyone raising it is accused of calling all trans people predators.

I'm over repeating the mantra "I know this isn't all trans people but..." before raising issues about abuse of children. We'll no longer be silenced. Yes some people will misspeak, but when stating that only women give birth generates threats to livelihood and personal safety, people aren't going to shut up.

To be fair the whole trans movement is, by its nature, a radical fringe. One which postulates that the concept of 'gender identity' over-rules the reality of sex, and whether people go on activist marches or not, there is an expectation that people must use 'pronouns' which fly in the face of reality; use facilities designated for other groups - and with a huge back up support mechanism which enforces that.

It is not only radical, but also quite dystopian.

I mean, I never went on a Brexit march or a Remain march. Does that have to mean I am radical about Brexit in both directions? I haven't spoken out about it so I must be assumed to be both a rabid Brexiteer and a die-hard Remoaner?

Thanks for editing out your accusations of anti-Semitism at least. Ironic.

You have otherwise literally repeated the same point that I was addressing. No, the majority group should not only be considered valid and moderate if and when it decries the radical fringe. That's not how it works.

Do you honestly believe that every single trans person is going around on marches attacking people, throwing piss, and screaming under banners? Or approves of this? Unless they say otherwise?

If there are "trans" people who don't agree with the actions of the TRAs they need to make their voices heard otherwise it's assumed that they all approve of what the TRAs do. I have yet to see a single word from one of these alleged reasonable "trans" people condemning the actions of TRAs.

I have heard this before.
So those British Jews (or trans people) who aren't marching or actively condemning the actions of the extremists in their ranks deserve to feel vulnerable and unsafe, do they? Only themselves to blame, if they don't speak out in condemnation?

There is a principle here, for me at least. Blame the people who are guilty. Not those who happen to be members of the same group as the guilty. I personally believe that's an important principle. And it doesn't depend on the innocent parties actively having to distance themselves. I shouldn't assume my Muslim neighbour is a religious radical unless and until he proves by condemnation that he is not.

There are many British Jews not only opposed to the actions of the Israeli army but prepared to join pro-Palestinian marches to demonstrate their opposition. We might stop tarring all "trans" people with the same brush if some of this alleged silent majority actually do something to condemn the TRAs.

Seen that at the time. Billy Moore, Edge of the Matrix (the guy who wears the trans sandwich board) and MKR Audits (one half of the lesbian couple you mention) all put videos on YouTube of it. Only one we were missing was Charlie Veitch, I think.

There’s one particular individual who I can’t stand, who always appears in these videos. He’s a crying-faced wee scumbag who incites confrontation then behaves like the wronged party.

Oh grow up.

Telling you that it's not on to describe all of a minority in the terms of the radical fringe is not telling you how to describe your reality. It's not reality.

If I was on here saying "British Jews don't deserve any kind of protection or consideration because the reality is that the Israeli army is committing atrocities" I would rightly expect to be banned for hate speech. Why is it ok for greenfriedtomato to use exactly this rhetoric about trans people, conflating all trans people as delicate flowers going around attacking women? It's not true and you (should) know it.

No.

TRAs have been policing women’s speech and language for years now, and in doing so have removed women’s ability to speak up as our rights are trampled. We regularly get told that, while what we are saying might not be wrong, it would be better if we said it in a different tone of voice, or using different words, or in a kinder way.

Enough. Stop telling us how to describe our reality.

"ironic to see allies bleating on about how trans are the most marginalised and vulnerable and have had their dignity and rights taken away, while the delicate flowers are being filmed acting violently and attacking women (and men)."

I know I have said this before but this is how radicalisation starts. You take the actions of extremists and apply the same motivations to all members of that group. It's lazy thinking and its dangerous thinking. It's dehumanising and I personally find it deeply worrying that it's on this site day in and day out.

Let's use an analogy. "Ironic how British Muslims claim to be feeling marginalised and vulnerable, while the delicate flowers are on film acting violently stabbing people and blowing up the tube".

Clearly my next door neighbours, who are Muslim, had nothing whatsoever to do with the actions of the radical few, and they should not be held accountable for it.

All trans people are not trans activists. Just like all Muslims are not radicals, all Jewish people aren't Zionists, and all fat people aren't lazy and greedy.

Most trans people are not at rallies attacking women and men. Please check your language. Just like you claim for pronouns, it matters. "Some of the delicate flowers", fair enough (though the contempt drips from your use of "delicate flowers" to describe trans women).

So did I. I presume as this is the account of one of the "Dave is funny" supporters of Chapelle, he's got the copyright for the film of that gloriously insane moment.

I also recall that Netflix responded to the demo by sacking some employees who organised the demo against them.. FAFO and all that 😄

Oh well done! I thought it was lost!

Yes - starting at 5.00 mins in you can see the man breaking his placard (said something like "Jokes are funny ") and then shouting "he's got a weapon" and then the "repent motherfucker" women arrives:

That was the one where a TRA snapped one of the DC supporters signs off its wooden stick then started screaming he's got a weapon.