Violent trans rights protest in Manchester.

In the same way all women who do not buy into gender ideology are labelled 'TERFS'

Regardless of whether some people adopt a trans identity...they remain the sex they are. That is the point. Another point is that whilst many may just want to " quietly get on with their lives" a good number more insist that they must have access to facilities and services put aside for women and girls. This is a problem.

People quietly going about their lives is ideal....nobody has any issue with people identifying however they like - so long as they do not expect special treatment. Pronouns etc are part of a private belief system and this should not be imposed upon others. Pronouns can be negotiated privately with loved ones, family and friends.

The minute someone expects pronouns and access to facilities designated for the opposite sex they are no longer quietly going about anything; they are engaging with a radical ideology and the demands that go with it.

Sorry quote fail

' He doesn't exist'

From reading these boards I gather quite a few people have trans relatives and children. Are they all violent TRA's? I think the answer would probably be no. There are far more trans people just quietly getting on with their lives who don't want to get involved in any of this and why should they. But it seems like all trans people are branded TRA's. It's so ridiculous when you think about your trans friends and relatives. Multiply all those quiet friends and relatives and it's the vast majority.

Wholly agree.

They also benefit from the absolute fear of institutions and establishment organisations to provoke these activists and be punished by their often terrible behaviour.

It is so much easier to just go on harming and oppressing women, who don't scream and pee outside your doors, threaten to kill you and your family, try to get you sacked, launch enormous and threatening and damaging social media campaigns.... as on another thread today, the behaviour is so bad that it is honestly seen as better to spend two years and the horrific expense and humiliation of a loss in court to a woman who has quietly and civilly gone through due process than face that.

It's a classic safeguarding fail and a very serious weak spot in all the establishment personel: the fear to do the right thing and withstand never mind deal effectively with the behaviour of difficult, high demand, high control, emotionally and behaviourally incontinent and unstable people.

I have no sympathy though: this behaviour should never have been indulged and enabled and permitted to escalate in the first place. It means there is two tier treatment and the law abiding and socially appropriate are punished to placate the difficult.

The belief that ‘it is not all trans people - most just want to live a quiet life’ is a difficult one to support now.

The simple reality is that you can not change or transition sex or gender… therefore there is technically no such thing as someone who is transgender.

Instead you have to understand what groups exist under that convenient umbrella (remember that words have been kidnapped and had their meanings changed to support fallacious philosophies), and there are three primary groups (using men as the example):

• those who feel that there is a mismatch between their identity and their body - the bloke who feels that wearing a dress is a better expression of self
• those who claim that they have actually changed sex - living a life of lies and with the intention of gaining access to women’s spaces
• those who believe that they can change sex and that this will fix their body dysmorphia…

the problem we have is that the agenda is being driven by that second group, they drive the violence, they have driven attempts to change society and law, they don’t care about the other two groups esp. not that group three need mental health work not body mutilation and hormones

so we need to reframe society

• remind that trans xyz doesn’t exist
• acknowledge that there are those with lifestyle choices and mental health needs to be addressed (but men remain men)
• protect the vulnerable
• etc

none of that involves supporting a trans ideology - supporting lies is a misguided approach…

I know it's easier to moan about women on here - but we're not the problem.
It's over there ➡➡

...where one risks getting downvoted into oblivion, or more likely, banned. Says it all.

Yes, that was very interesting. They seem to have come to that conclusion without being on any terfy sites like Mumsnet.

And Mr Menno's video at the end was quite enlightening, too. He encountered a furry meeting a few streets away and stopped to ask questions.

The men said they just like to adopt the perceived personas of different animals, and actually, to be honest, mate, we've raised a ton of money for charity.

The 'this is not a fetish' constraint was so tight, I'm surprised they didn't asphyxiate themselves with it.

It's farcical, really. Even while the guy was confirming that yes it's just a form of escapism, another guy in a mask is leading a young man, in make up, and a harness, through the crowd 😆

I do think that trans people "just existing" shouldn't have to specifically say they disagree with attacking women or throwing piss or be assumed to be radical.

sorry to say we are now beyond that. If trans people don't speak up, they are in with the TRAs whether they like it or not.
Interesting to see that this divides the TRAs and trans people into "tru trans" and TRAs. And now the "tru trans" are getting the same feelings about this movement that a lot of lesbians and gays have been feeling for some time now: the TRAs have pushed far too hard and have now alienated people against them who would normally be allies. And because of the insistance of lumping the LGB in with the TQ+ - nobody from outside can tell who the TRAs are and who aren't.

I was at a CSD event the other day. Because i am really worried that the backlash against the TRAs will lead to restrictions on the lives of LGB people. I don't want, as i have said elsewhere, to have to get out my placards and attend demos about legalising same sex marriage. I've done that already.

I liked Mr Menno's video - in particular the two Lesbians who, in real time, discovered they are TERFs.

The aggression is palpable. But. Let them speak. It's working well.

I suspect it is very uncomfortable for some people to accept that they benefit from the extreme demands made by those extreme transgender rights activists. Yet, this is the indisputable fact for any male person who accesses even one of the provisions that should be female single sex only.

It is also the case for organisations who have a policy that demands that one group's language demands that suit their philosophical belief is to be prioritised over anyone's objection or anyone's belief that is contradiction to that group's demands. Such as pronoun usage.

It is mightily convenient for some people to denounce the actions of the extreme activists and while I understand the reluctance to get involved, if someone is benefitting from those activists work, I think that they too need to accept their part in what has happened to the rights of women and children in their name, so to speak.

I wish TRAs would bog off. They are immensely unhelpful.

Understatement of the decade🏆

That march looked to me like a whole bunch of people with all different reasons for marching, most of it attention seeking and aggressive.

And yes, the guy, meatloaf, was high as a kite shouting his head off, and jostling women.

I've never seen the man filming before, Billy, but his oft repeated, it's just guys that want to get into the birds' toilet, is, I strongly suspect, what the general public and non-marchers were thinking.

The TRAs certainly didn't look to me as though they were winning hearts and minds. Quite the opposite.

You call it "dehumanisation & radicalisation" - I call it raising awareness and saying what transactivists and their allies forbid us to speak about.

Those "quietly living their lives" have profited from a society that has given the rights of women & girls to single sex changing rooms, hospital wards and sports to trans identifying men. Have gaslit children in the name of trans selling the "sex change is desirable" causing massive harm to them. Have accessed millions of ££ of "gender affirming care" from the NHS - despite being trans apparently not being an illness. The social contract has been upended with the legitimate language of women used in society including maternity care, policies, medicine, charities all deemed transphobic and required to be erased. The cost to society has been immense.

Calling what women speak about on here "radicalisation" is just another attempt to silence questioning, analysis and discussion. Surely your attention would be better focussed on the trans lobby trying to silence discussion in a democratic society rather than women on here trying to expose harm and corruption? Because remember it's not just those in that sad Manchester procession who silence - this an immensely powerful lobby in society and they've all signed up to the word woman being transphobic - which is why we're in this mess.

I know it's easier to moan about women on here - but we're not the problem.
It's over there ➡➡

Exactly this ^^

The 'few bad apples' card has been played out, and it didn't work well years ago.

Find any trans organisation or agency with a social media account, that has ever in the last 15 years put out the messages

Not in our name
We absolutely do not condone this behaviour
this is unacceptable
they do not speak for us.

If you can find it please share it. I'm afraid the lovely quiet person who lives without supporting this anti-women lunatic mob is rather like the mythical fraudulent, fully transitioned accountant who was the reason why all men with trans identities should be in women's prisons - because never mind the many rapists and sex offenders and violent thugs who were getting in, if you stopped them you might accidentally shut out the one virtuous good man who should be in a woman's space.

He doesn't exist. And there is no voice or evidence to say that there is any other trans view or behaviour than this. Including on this anonymous forum where they would be very able to quietly slip in and join the conversation. I know several who wouldn't turn out and shout and be antisocial themselves but absolutely love watching the mob do it and cheer them on. So trying to leverage women's guilt into stopping pointing out the very obvious atrocious anti social behaviour? Just turns into yet more anti-womaning and control in the name of trans.

And yes, the bandwagon has definitely attracted the omnicause 'fuck knows what this is about but if I get to stomp around shouting and swearing in a mob I'm in!' ones. This is becoming a movement for the antisocial disaffected. Which says a lot.

The irony of the chanting "there are many many more of us than you" was not lost on me.

I agree with the main point you are making. However, it is common human behaviour to defend, or at least keep silent about, the language and actions of people we see as part of our own tribe - and trans identity is particularly tribal. The trans people and their allies that I know personally, struggle even to admit that women (and some others such as relatives of trans people) are badly impacted by the behaviour of trans identifying people and activists. Because the trans cause is righteous, so the activists can be excused. And because the cause is righteous, coercive behaviour is acceptable.

Churches have often tried to hide abuse, and in doing so have enabled it. I see some signs that they are learning their lesson, that failure to deal with and condemn abuse is being complicit, and that it ends up in even more reputational damage than if they admitted there was a problem in the first place. As far as I can see, the trans tribe is still in the early phase of denial that there is any problem at all.

"Though any trans person reading this board would be getting the message that they are all tarred with the same brush as the extremists amongst them."

Then they are not reading the threads with any depth. The majority of posters are very clear about who are the people they are discussing and criticising. That is almost every time, male people who seek to access female single sex provisions. Female people with transgender identities are generally supported in the discussion for those provisions.. So, if readers are getting that message that you describe, it is because they perhaps don't bother to seek to understand the issues being discussed.

"And I do think there is a great deal of conflation on these board of ordinary trans people quietly living with trans criminals, trans activists etc in a way that stokes dehumanisation and radicalisation."

I think you are continuing to make generalised statements while telling others that they are making generalised statements that you don't agree with. Which would be hypocritical surely?

I can attest to this.

When it is an organised 'counter' protest to women's events, and there are many of these throughout the year, this is the behaviour shown by these mainly male protesters. Very loud, often with amplifiers and playing noise makers, lots of yelling and aggressive and intimidatory behaviour. Though this image shows a very light crowd, from my own experience it is anything from 50-100 or more at a time.

These are not one off events. This behaviour is very frequent.

TRA means trans rights activist. They ain't all even trans! They're the fundamentalist end of the gender identity belief system.

They're the IDF of your analogy.

'I do think there is a great deal of conflation on these board of ordinary trans people quietly living with trans criminals, trans activists etc in a way that stokes dehumanisation and radicalisation.'

Nobody is fussed about a trans person 'quietly living '. We are concerned by males threatening women and women's rights, and activists threatening children's wellbeing.

Perhaps more visibility of these trans people who are 'quietly living' would help, only by definition they are less visible and vocal.