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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Council worker "lied" about police investigation of artist Victoria Culf

83 replies

DustyWindowsills · 01/07/2025 21:29

I dimly recall a news story about this last year. Artist Victoria Culf, while setting up an exhibition at Council premises (a museum), chatted about gender issues with a council worker (who brought up the subject). Subsequently the Council blocked her from easy access to her own exhibition, on the grounds of a police investigation into a hate crime. She is now suing the Council.

It now turns out (so her legal team claim) that there was no police investigation. The council worker made it all up. WTAF?

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/council-staff-lied-about-police-investigating-artist-for-gender-views-bbnf5cs2m

This is the Times. Sorry I don't know how to do those archive link thingies.

Council staff ‘lied about police investigating artist for gender views’

Victoria Culf is suing Watford council for blocking her from her exhibition after she said transitioning was harmful to children

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/council-staff-lied-about-police-investigating-artist-for-gender-views-bbnf5cs2m

OP posts:
AnSolas · 02/07/2025 19:32

Magenta82 · 02/07/2025 19:23

It was joke reference to the Sandie Peggie case, Dr Upton claimed that he made notes on his phone that prove when things happened but has been unable to produce them.

Ahhh gotya☺️

Can the nice judge give SP an search warrent for his tec and backups?
Or did he claim the phone and notes end up falling into the nearest clinical waste box etc etc

Magenta82 · 02/07/2025 19:23

AnSolas · 02/07/2025 19:01

Errr wot?

The police officer opened the official police system?
On the system typed in their login code on the keyboard to start creating a record?
This record created a unique record code?
Which was given by the officer to the employee?
The the employee recorded this number on their personal phone?
The police officer then created a second record which recorded no crime occured as VC had a right to express a view?
Some time later ( between these two records being created and VC collecting data for her case) some how the first record vanished from the system and the second one remained?

That sounds like the police failed to had basic Data Protection systems in place (designed I am sure ) to prevent an audit trail being created. 👀

Additionally an office as yet unidentified accessed the first (now missing record) and called the employee to up date the employee on the progress but the police have no record of that interaction either?

The defense will have a field day proving how the police made such a basic mistake.

It was joke reference to the Sandie Peggie case, Dr Upton claimed that he made notes on his phone that prove when things happened but has been unable to produce them.

AnSolas · 02/07/2025 19:01

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 02/07/2025 16:33

The council worker probably recorded the HC incident number as part of contemporaneous notes on their phone - so it must be true.

The police are obviously mistaken

Errr wot?

The police officer opened the official police system?
On the system typed in their login code on the keyboard to start creating a record?
This record created a unique record code?
Which was given by the officer to the employee?
The the employee recorded this number on their personal phone?
The police officer then created a second record which recorded no crime occured as VC had a right to express a view?
Some time later ( between these two records being created and VC collecting data for her case) some how the first record vanished from the system and the second one remained?

That sounds like the police failed to had basic Data Protection systems in place (designed I am sure ) to prevent an audit trail being created. 👀

Additionally an office as yet unidentified accessed the first (now missing record) and called the employee to up date the employee on the progress but the police have no record of that interaction either?

The defense will have a field day proving how the police made such a basic mistake.

OdeToRoy · 02/07/2025 18:47

once a parent has decided to trans their child they MUST seek out and receive reassurance that they are doing the right thing

That does help me make sense of it, because I was struggling to understand why you’d talk about your child’s health in a casual conversation with someone you didn’t know.

Binglebong · 02/07/2025 18:41

Damaged artwork too - criminal damage?

RayonSunrise · 02/07/2025 18:09

SidewaysOtter · 02/07/2025 16:33

As @CassOle rightly says, because they believe the end justifies the means.

With the added impetus, as Helen Joyce has pointed out, that once a parent has decided to trans their child they MUST seek out and receive reassurance that they are doing the right thing, because the alternative is horrendous. And if they don’t get that reassurance, they lash out.

Not the first time we’ve this, either.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 02/07/2025 16:33

The council worker probably recorded the HC incident number as part of contemporaneous notes on their phone - so it must be true.

The police are obviously mistaken

SidewaysOtter · 02/07/2025 16:33

EdithStourton · 02/07/2025 08:41

When did it become okay to lie like this to further your own agenda?

As @CassOle rightly says, because they believe the end justifies the means.

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 02/07/2025 16:14

PrettyDamnCosmic · 02/07/2025 13:32

It's not even that as it's not even really an Equality Act issue. The child being "transed" by their parent does possess the protected characteristic of 'gender reassignment' but their parent does not. There is no case law that a belief in gender identity is even a protected characteristic. Post-Forstater on the contrary a belief that gender identity is a load of old tosh is protected in law.
Victoria has a clear case of being harassed for her GC beliefs.

Edited

it's not even really an Equality Act issue

At first I thought the same but I agree that it is, in addition to all the other wrong-doing.

The Council worker's harassment of the artist would constitute unlawful discrimination against Victoria Culf in provision of a service by the Council, ie. on the basis of Culf's protected gender critical beliefs.

EDIT to correct initial misunderstanding of the post I am replying to!

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2025 16:05

lcakethereforeIam · 02/07/2025 15:58

There's a recap in the Telegraph

https://archive.ph/iht5P

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/02/christian-artist-reported-to-police-gender-critical-views/

I'd forgotten that the council employee was transing their kid.

Ah the good old 'chilling effect'.

Its quite the thing isn't it? The power it gives to those parents is quite something.

lcakethereforeIam · 02/07/2025 15:58

There's a recap in the Telegraph

https://archive.ph/iht5P

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/02/christian-artist-reported-to-police-gender-critical-views/

I'd forgotten that the council employee was transing their kid.

DustyWindowsills · 02/07/2025 15:29

Watfordwoman · 02/07/2025 10:59

I actually know about this case and the specifics as I’m a local to Watford. Happy to share info once the court case is resolved

That would be great. 🙂

OP posts:
Hoardasurass · 02/07/2025 14:35

Brefugee · 02/07/2025 13:02

is this one protected characteristic (gender identity) coming up against another protected characteristic (religion)?

Gender identity is not and never has been a protected characteristic regardless of what stonewall et al have and continue to claim

Dwimmer · 02/07/2025 13:52

You can be discriminated against ‘by association’ - though only direct discrimination, not indirect.

AnSolas · 02/07/2025 13:33

Imo gender reassignment as a PC would only apply if the employee was within the gender reassignment class and that something other than has been reported so far had happened

PrettyDamnCosmic · 02/07/2025 13:32

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2025 13:17

It's 'gender reassignment' (not gender identity - this difference matters) coming up against 'religion or belief' (this covers religion and non religious gender critical beliefs).

It's not even that as it's not even really an Equality Act issue. The child being "transed" by their parent does possess the protected characteristic of 'gender reassignment' but their parent does not. There is no case law that a belief in gender identity is even a protected characteristic. Post-Forstater on the contrary a belief that gender identity is a load of old tosh is protected in law.
Victoria has a clear case of being harassed for her GC beliefs.

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2025 13:17

Brefugee · 02/07/2025 13:02

is this one protected characteristic (gender identity) coming up against another protected characteristic (religion)?

It's 'gender reassignment' (not gender identity - this difference matters) coming up against 'religion or belief' (this covers religion and non religious gender critical beliefs).

Brefugee · 02/07/2025 13:02

is this one protected characteristic (gender identity) coming up against another protected characteristic (religion)?

Dwimmer · 02/07/2025 12:55

KeepTalkingBeth · 02/07/2025 11:41

Actually having followed so many employment tribunals on this board, I feel that "handmaidens/ aunt Lydias" in organisations are a crucial element in the TRA bullying machine. Private prosecutions would make them think twice. I'm not talking about people who are too scared to stick their heads above the parapet in captured organisations, but about enthusiastic, vocal embracers of the cause - people like dr Kate Searle in the Peggie vs NHS case.

It is interesting what happens when you bear personal responsibility for your actions isn’t it? Just look at Maggie Chapman MSP voting to keep trans-identified men out of the Scottish Parliament’s women’s toilets because a useful oddity of the system meant members of that deciding committee were personally responsible for their actions.

Magenta82 · 02/07/2025 12:50

I considered it when I first read about it last year. But at the moment there is an active court case and nothing has been proven, once there has been a verdict I will ask what they plan to do to promote free speech and prevent something like this happening again.

Justme56 · 02/07/2025 12:48

https://x.com/cconcern/status/1940351128882794870?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

There is a bit more about this on X including the involvement of a local charity.

https://x.com/cconcern/status/1940351128882794870?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

ScreamingBeans · 02/07/2025 12:42

Magenta82 · 02/07/2025 06:12

This is my local council. I'm absolutely appalled that it happened, especially knowing that I paid for it.
I really hope the whole place isn't captured, I've only noticed a moderate amount of pride stuff etc.

Please write to your local councillor asking what they are going to do about this.

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2025 12:29

KeepTalkingBeth · 02/07/2025 11:12

I am agog at this. If it's been reported correctly, this wasn't just like a spur of the moment tweet, was it? This was a series of deliberate serious actions and lies, using their position in a public body in order to harass the artist and make her lose her livelihood.

Yes gross misconduct but surely also a crime has been committed?

Yes. I believe so if accurate.

Misconduct in Public Office I believe.

A public official willfully neglects their duties or misbehaves to such a degree that it abuses the public's trust. It requires a deliberate act or omission that is a serious departure from proper standards, and the official must be aware of the duty they are neglecting or misbehaving in relation to.

AnSolas · 02/07/2025 12:12

KeepTalkingBeth · 02/07/2025 11:12

I am agog at this. If it's been reported correctly, this wasn't just like a spur of the moment tweet, was it? This was a series of deliberate serious actions and lies, using their position in a public body in order to harass the artist and make her lose her livelihood.

Yes gross misconduct but surely also a crime has been committed?

Harrassment

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/section/1

The emoloyee was tasked to carry out a role which involved minimun contact with a individual who had a lawful contract to use the space.

The employee has no reason to bring up transgenderism ( I am assuming VC did not introduce the topic).

The employee objected to the lawful views held by VC.

Internal policy would have imposed a contractual oblgation to not "bring your whole self to work" but rather follow the law (EA on faith etc) and be professional in your dealings with others. Its commonly accepted that telling lies to your employer is misconduct and that employees must refrain from using employer assets and/or creating losses for personal gain (also misconduct)

The employee with no consultation with their manager decided to contact the police and make an allegation against VC. Thats not smart but is their right. The employee was informed that no crime happened and no crime would be recorded.

The employee engaged in a number of actions designed to breach VC's contract for services.

• False report of harrassment by VC
• False report of crime report being take by the police.
• False reporting a crime number when none was issued.
• False report of an ongoing investigation when it was known no action would be taken.
• False report of a call back from police and claiming it was the "hate crime unit" to create an illusion of a more serious level of criminal act.
• Knowing the false reports had resulted in action by the LA
• Knowing that this action interfered with VCs livelyhood and that would continue into the future.
This was focused at causing financial harm and remove her access to public spaces owned by the employer.

The employee also engaged in some of the actions to create a fear that VC would be arrested when that was never ever going to happen.

The employee may not qualify as a public officer but it is clearly an abuse of their role to setout to use the internal process in the way ot has been described.

Protection from Harassment Act 1997

An Act to make provision for protecting persons from harassment and similar conduct.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/section/1

Magenta82 · 02/07/2025 12:06

Watfordwoman · 02/07/2025 11:29

The museum is now closed pending its move to the town Hall. Unfortunately, as you know Watford BC is a Lib Dem stronghold as is Herts CC who is completely captured. I know this story and circumstances - heard directly from the museum member of staff who told me before she realised I was not her type of feminist 🤭

Shame it is closed, I remember going on school trips in the 80s.

The Lib Dems have dominated the council for a long time, as shown by the limited number of elected mayors in the last 25 years, but I do know that a lot of them used to be members of the same church as Dorothy Thornhill and Ian Sharpe so didn't know if that made a difference to their perspective.

I'd be interested to hear your take, have you contacted Victoria Culf's legal team to let them know what was said to you?

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