Broadcasters must air views that trans women are women, says Ofcom

You are not being silenced or shunned. You can absolutely start a discussion about abortion in either of the feminism boards, or anywhere on Mumsnet for that matter, and I expect you would see plenty of engagement. The convention of any online forum is that threads are designed to discuss the topic of the thread, although obviously discussion may wander into related areas. You’ve been told by many posters that the topic you want to discuss doesn’t really fit with the subject of this thread. It’s just basic manners to follow the conventions of a forum.

Think about it, how many people who are interested in discussing abortion are going to click on a thread about OFCOM? You’ll get much more engagement with an appropriately titled thread.

You may not be aware that women have been silenced and shunned on other forums, such as Reddit, where gender critical forums have been removed and posters have been deleted and banned for stating gender critical views.

The BBC have never been impartial.

And yet they claim that they are (we all know they are not impartial when it comes to gender issues).

Section 2: Impartiality

Impartiality is fundamental to the BBC's purpose and is enshrined in the BBC's Charter. It means not favouring one side over another and reflecting all relevant sides of the debate. It means not taking sides, reflecting all relevant strands of public debate and challenging them with consistent rigour. Impartiality is key to a relationship of trust with audiences, that they know the BBC is not being influenced by any personal or other agenda in what it chooses to broadcast or publish or in how it covers stories and that it seeks to include a wide range of views on any given topic.

@BackToLurk I totally agree choice has to be considered only in relation to it's impacts on others choices. It is not a value in itself. There are good choices and bad ones I think destroying someone else's body entirely and intentionally to the point of death surely crosses that line. Or nothing does. No woman has two sets of DNA, two heads, two beating hearts. To abort a baby is to entirely violate her choice.

I have no problem with a suitably informed and fully consenting adult having whatever cosnetic modifications to theirbody they choise. It is indeed their body their choice. There is no surgical or medical modification that can make a male body female. I wouldn't dream of preventing someone with the mental capacity to control their own life and the maturity to know what they are doing from choosing to have any surgery whether that be to remove natural breasts, add silicone breasts or remove genitals, or remove an unwanted embryo that has no right to be there if it is not welcome. That doesn't mean that men should be able to get into women's spaces.

I do think the ages of consent for such surgeries should be different. A 13 or 14yo girl who finds herself pregnant has sufficient maturity and understanding to know that she doesn't want to be pregnant and that continuing a pregnancy would damage her. A 13 or 14yo has no capacity to understand the damage that would be done by surgery that will permanently destroy their ability to orgasm when they have no concept of what that would mean to them as an adult.

Nasty right-wing patriarchy and subjugation of women by forcing them to be incubators against their will has no place in feminism.

Fair enough, when reporting on trans issues both sides should be represented. I agree with OFCOM. That should be the case when reporting on anything otherwise it's not news it's propaganda.

Oh just bore off

This is what I think too. It all depends, of course, on how presenters and shows handle it; if they make clear that these are views, or if they join in with the ideology and call men ‘her’ etc.

@Fringle Ofcom stiplulates that man made climate change is settled and diverse viewpoints need not be broadcast - (despite many of the most elite atmospheric scientists disputing it) but they dont allow biological sex to be
in that category.of clearly defined fact Ofcom clearly not impartial and cannot effectively scrutinise

I have no strong objection to this, because every time a trans activist opens his mouth he does more damage. I would want to make sure that no one should be allowed to say TWAW unopposed or unchallenged. For too long it was treated as the accepted definition until everyone said “hang on, since when has that been agreed upon.”

So let some loon keep chanting their empty illogical mantra, in fact, make them do it on the 6 O’clock news and ask them to define woman in the process. Let the entire nation see it in all its glory.

No it doesn't. It just means people can express that view. Others are free to contradict it.

The circular nature of this argument baffles me.

Im not a transwoman and never will be because of biology.

All transwoman are men because a defining characteristic of trans women is that you have to be a man.

In order to be a transwoman you have to be a man.

A women? Sure. You and your mates have been flooding the forum with shit for weeks, to shut us up.

See silencing and shunning women who disagree with babies being killed. That's not "feminism" surely?

Before I go any further…nobody takes a dimmer view of “TWAW” than me, with all the obvious real-world dangers, unfairness and stupidity that comes with the actions and policy that have followed it.

But isn’t Ofcom just saying that this is a controversial subject on which views differ and if that subject is raised it must reflect (broadly speaking) the other side?

I don’t see that the SC judgment “settles” the debate. It makes clear that the EA must be understood in terms of biological sex. Thank god. But it doesn’t stop a trans activist from arguing their corner in other terms.

Ultimately it’s not really a debate that can be settled. It’s a debate about social conventions. As I say, I think it’s a fatuous debate - since the science isn’t open to question and conventions can’t trump science - but the trans voice would say, I think, that the science defines biological sex, not mores.

People, stop answering to Trish. He will go away if we ignore him.

We are not discussing abortion right now. Please open your own thread if you want to discuss it, rather than force-teaming us.

Demanding women’s labour is not feminist. HTH

This ideology is absolutely everywhere!

The flags at Glastonbury thread was well and truly derailed.

And here we are again. Another name, another squirrel, if people decide to chase it.

It seems that Ofcom are already captured by ‘gender’. Can’t imagine their own bias would go down well at an ET.

GB news are not averse to inviting TRAs on are they? Do they still wheel out Benjamin Butterworth? They seem to have the paedophile apologist Peter Tatchell on quite frequently.

It just says they must air these views, it doesn't say they're not allowed to laugh at them.

This thread is about "Broadcasters must air views that trans women are women, says Ofcom". It's not remotely connected to abortion.

Start your own thread. The best place for this would be feminism chat.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism

Please stop derailing this thread.

That is not what we're discussing here.

Although, to digress a little, there is such a thing as sex-selective abortion. Which is only possible because sex in humans is determined at conception, can be detected in the womb and is impossible to change.

There are very few people here who would argue that adults don’t have the choice of what to do with their own bodies. The question is how far those choices should impact others. Choice is always within limits.

The BBC have never been impartial.

And:
Part of what ofcom does statement from their website;

"We also help to make sure people across the UK are satisfied with what they see and hear on TV and radio, and that programmes reflect the audiences they serve."

"a range of companies provide quality television and radio programmes that appeal to diverse audiences"