Transgender campaigners call for European rights body to report on UK

I think the only appropriate response to any criticisms from the Council of Europe is this.

"Show us where it says in the treaty we signed up to in 1953 that the desires of male people who wish to be women trump the rights of actual women. Where it actually says it, not where you imagine it says it if you squint very hard and read between the lines. Until you can do that, you can bog off, because no one in the UK has ever voted for you and you have no democratic legitimacy."

The one where a male poster somehow believed that they were the first male poster with a transgender identity to post on this board and / or not understanding that there are posters on this board with transgender identities but that this male poster has decided that they don't exist?

And that a male person should be centred on a feminism board that was set up specifically for Sex & Gender discussions? And that they, as a male poster, should be able to censure the topics that female people wish to discuss on a feminism board, or at all?

You really couldn't get a better example of misogyny really.

Nor do we want to Red and that is obviously such a shock to Bee, how very dare women not centre Bee and do what Bee demands.

Another point.

Why do transgender campaigners such as Bee think the ruling was about women, not men?

Was it

a) There is a conflict of rights, in which female people are disproportionately affected?

b) Female people are naturally more inclined to prejudice against trans people than males.

Whichever way you look at it, the misogyny is there.

In their denial of A) and accusations of bigotry, Bee seems (with phonetic appropriateness - sorry !) to favour... B?

That is exactly the thought I had with that two line post by Bee.

The 'but why aren't you just listening to me and fawning all over me?' dawning realisation.

Because we don't have to.

This has been posted before, but I thought that it might be of interest to any lurkers reading this thread.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1816266309555884491.html

The into:

"For anyone who doesn’t know, I’m a law enforcement officer with experience investigating both homicides and sex crimes.

When I was a rookie in 2007, there was a clear understanding that crossdressing men in women’s spaces were often there for sexual reasons..."

We will never get an answer to this question, nor the one about what rights trans people don't have which blows the I am here for a discussion trope right out of the water. Bee is not here to discuss or debate but to scold, sneer and dictate - that ship sailed long ago Bee.

<checks bothered bag>

Nope. Nothing.

It brings to mind one of my favourite gifs about men arriving to explain.

https://tenor.com/en-GB/view/mansplaining-man-a-man-has-arrived-to-explain-his-manly-views-gif-15480977

To be clear..

1. Having dysphoria is not a choice, but transitioning is.
2. You only transition away from a sex, not towards one.
3. Females experience higher levels sexual violence from men. Sexual violence happens in private spaces away from other men.
4. If the rights you want takes aways other peoples safety and dignity then they are not human rights.

We will not allow the use of the females in women's toilets to appease the demand for validation by men.

The answer is no.

Look at the egotistical display on show here.

We have a classic
BEHOLD A MAN HAS ARRIVED!

We've been having serious discussions on this for years. You are not the only trans in the village.

We are not trolling. We are disagreeing and saying this is bollocks and we aren't playing anymore. You don't get to set the rules and tell us how we should behave.

Women are going to set their own terms and conditions and set the agenda for themselves going forward. Males are not part of that.

You need to stop hijacking women groups, because our self interest is NOT aligned with the centring of males. We don't have to subject ourselves to being service humans to enable and validate males.

Stop trojaning women's and lgb rights and understand that human rights are based on equality not dominating and subjugating another group.

You are just going to have to get used to a compromise solution, rather than getting your own way at our expense.

Because the answer is no.

And actually there isn't a debate to be had over this. We are done with it. We have done our homework, we've been more than reasonable and we STILL got ignored and trampled all over because you refused to listen. We are happy with third space solutions and we are not trying to threaten anyone. The rest is for you to solve. This is not women's emotional labour.

The only purpose this thread really has is to explain this 'new reality' - once again until the penny drops.

The world does not revolve around you. It is not centred around transrights. Women have rights too. We'd be grateful if you could actually show us some respect for once. It's about time it was acknowledged that respect is not a one way street.

We keep replying to argue our case, including for the lurkers, but really, nothing more is needed than the below:

Transgender campaigners in the UK are urging the Council of Europe to investigate a recent Supreme Court ruling that defines "woman" and "sex" based on biological sex.

What an absolutely astonishing sentence. I'm wary of the RSOH cliché, but can't help thinking that future historians and sociologists will have a field day with this. Give it enough time, and they'll see it as we do Salem.

In as many words:

Transgender campaigners in the UK are urging the Council of Europe to investigate a recent Supreme Court ruling that gives the female sex the right to distinguish themselves from males in language and law.

And we could argue back that allowing men (yes, they are Bee) in places where we expect only to be with other females breaches our human rights.

Indeed, in some circumstances, being forced to be naked in front of the opposite sex can be considered a form of torture.

I've asked you several times for your opinion on what it is about the male toilets, with their cubicles and urinals, and sinks, and towels or driers that you don't like. But you never respond. What else in these toilets would you need to enable you to use them?

This.
Bee would be far better considering why bee spends so much time on Mumsnet? Why so many seething posts relentlessly criticising women who bee evidently despises? What is it that Bee finds so exciting about posting on here? I'm sure a therapist could help Bee work out why - though we women know precisely what motivates Bee's fury 😁

This seems to need repeating every five seconds at the moment

1. transpeople have not lost rights because of the SC ruling
2. transpeople have been lied to and mislead by various organisations misrepresenting the law for years. This has lead to an actual loss of rights for women due to them not being able to enforce them properly
3. transpeople are protected by the SC ruling. Without reference to sex, you can not identify transpeople and protect them in law.
4. There are various principles in human rights law. One of them is that rights must be balanced and that that can not harm another group. In the case with the conflict point with women this means protecting their sex and providing alternative suitable arrangements for transpeople.
5. There is no legal right to enforced validation, because this violates various other rights of others people.
6. Affirmation only policies have done massive harm and exposed various vulnerable groups to considerable harm. The Tavistock scandal is still simmering and will continue to do so. Insurers know it's a ticking time bomb.
7. Developments elsewhere in the world are headed the same way.

Take it to court. Get various organisations involved.

It won't change these facts. The over reach by transactivism is like an elastic band. It is pinging back to the position it should.

None of these things mean that women are anti-trans. In the UK they tend to be pro-safeguard, pro-science, pro-health care and actually pro-acceptance. They just want privacy, dignity, safety and shock horror respect for women.

Get over yourself and understand that this anti-women shit is over though.

I really think this is another outstanding post.

The assumption that no posters on this board have transgender identities. And that we haven't had 'serious discussions' with them in the past.

Very enlightening. Thanks again.

@BeeSouriante But why should transwomen (men) be given the right to access toilet facilities, or any other woman-only spaces or activities, which align with their gender identity? They're men FFS!

Who's trolling you?
If you believe that a post is trolling you or trolling hunting please report those posts to MNHQ with the handy report post button on each post as both trolling and trolling hunting are banned and MNHQ will delete posts/ban posters as nesscary.
Ofcourse if you're just confusing robust debate and disagreement with you as trolling in the same way that correctly sexing someone is literal violence™️ then you won't get the outcome that you hope for

Who is trolling who?

Have you missed that there ARE people with transgender identities who post on this board? Do they have to 'out' themselves to you, after all your prose about privacy?

I don't see you actually having any intention of having a 'serious discussion', you have now many threads started and you come back and make some sneering comment and tell us that you can't be arsed replying to all the posts. You seem to think that people asking you questions or pointing out the disconnections between your posts and what you say your intentions are, or even valid critique about your links is 'trolling'.

So, from your posts, I think you believe that 'trolling' = valid criticism about the content of your posts, and your repeated false accusations about this board and the people who disagree with you.

You don't enter into discussion or debate, you just plop and go.

If you were open to discussion and debate you would answer the many questions put to you on the many threads you have started instead of running from them believing we should just accept without demur what you dictate.

The right to define rights in whatever way is chosen and to hell with any other group. It is the apotheosis of "me, me me" late stage American individualism gone nuts - with a healthy dose of big pharma thrown in for good measure.

We'd need a serious person to discuss with wouldn't we?

Yes, it's enlightening how each of these men truly believe they're the first.

Spamming, complaining, flouncing. Rinse, repeat.

I wouldn't mind, but they are like clones of each other. So tedious.