Transgender campaigners call for European rights body to report on UK

No not at all . Please post away to your hearts content, if nothing else your posts amuse me.

As Einstein once said:

”Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

So please tippy type away on your keyboard ❤️

Of course they haven't

That would involve thinking.

I can always spot your thread titles Bee.

Do they go on to explain why gender identity should take precedence over sex? I don’t have a gender identity but I know my sex.

So... a total misunderstanding of the term "guidance" there to start with.
As for the rest of it... 🙄

I wonder if these transactivists have considered the possibility that the ECtHR may end up agreeing with the UK Supreme Court.
This could backfire on them quite spectacularly.
Might be better to leave it alone.

"I think transwomen who had had top and bottom surgery believe this more than qualified them for a legit degree, rather than an honorary one."

They do. But also there are plenty of people who will give them either of those degrees because 'hard work' and 'commitment'. They do it unthinkingly.

I think the fantasy is that other people will believe they really are women, and failing that, grant them something equivalent to an honorary degree whereby you aren’t qualified but are given the degree anyway.

Using this analogy, I think transwomen who had had top and bottom surgery believe this more than qualified them for a legit degree, rather than an honorary one.

Women?

Nothing will come of it. The Council of Europe cannot change or overturn UK law. And if the screamers who were going to appeal the UKSC decision could do so, they would have done it by now.

If I wanted is, as a matter of policy, to leave the ECHR I would be beyond thrilled to get the Council of Europe to send us a finger waggy proclamation saying we are breaching the ECHR by not allowing male lady feelz to trump biological sex in terms of who gets to use what facilities.

I hope the Council of Europe do ‘investigate’. They will be reminded that women have rights too and men have no right to use women’s facilities.

We provide men’s or unisex facilities for male people. Take your pick.

Exactly

Nope.

The transmaxxers are something else entirely.

And I don’t even think that is referring to the transmaxxers?

We need to start saying that some activists are full on transcels.

Cos they actively do have a massive problem with women and aren't remotely interested in equality and principles of human rights. They are mens rights activists.

Not really surprised by this. It's clear that trans campaigners don't respect anyone female so not surprising they're trying to overturn a ruling that upholds women's rights.
And of course, gender reassignment is still a protected characteristic, so trans people are still protected against discrimination as they always were.
Such a shame that gender extremists are still trying to remove women's rights but I don't think they'll get further with it fortunately.

P.s. and (hopefully) before you challenge it,, I did have a think about the use of the word "fantasy" above. I realise that to believers it isn't a fantasy, but all kinds of believers in all kinds of beliefs need to be ok with non-believers thinking that their beliefs are fantasy for any kind of multicultural pluralistic society to work. I would fight against any other state-mandated required beliefs just as much and in the same terms.

I don't want you to piss off but it would be good if you prorperly engaged on the previous threads you are on rather than starting yet another new one. Eg you still haven't responded here and in various other posts to a number of posters including me asking you to specifically detail exactly what "rights" you don't have which you feel you ought to, given that full rights and non-discrimination protections are already enshrined in law for trans people.

Coopting non-consenting people to participate in a demonstration of a belief system they don't share is not a right you have or should ever have, and is a direct infringement of their rights to not be subject to degrading treatment (being used as an unconsenting prop in someone else's fantasy), rights to freedom of belief and expression, and rights to privacy. There is no barrier to a trans person accessing their rights in full without trampling on the rights of others.

The most that could possibly come out of this review, if it happens, could be that the UK is advised to strengthen the mandates for unisex options to be available wherever practical and reasonable without reducing the availability of single-sex provision where needed (and this would be fine). They have no power to remove womens rights.

why hasn't the trans lobby campaigned for better provision of unisex facilities over the past decades? I am sure any such campaign would have been successful years ago. Oh yes, it's because for some people (not all) the point of the whole thing is to ensure women cannot have anything that is inaccessible to males.

Sex is not and never has been gender.

Because it can't be.

It boils down to a binary decision - whether the law specifies for a sex classification based on biology or not. UK law does. The Council of Europe may think this a good or bad thing, or they may be indifferent. They may want to share their opinion on this or not - either is fine.

Goodwin highlighted the requirement of a government to provide a legal system for certifying a persons acquired gender. It did not explicitly or implicitly demonstrate that single sex provision is a human rights violation.

Third spaces/ provision is the legal solution to address determinant that might arise from having single sex provision. So long as the third space delivers the same benefits/ protections as the single sex ones, it’ll be hard to convince anyone that they represent a human rights violation

😆😆😆
Bee, a discussion is when people respond to each others’ point, not one person posting something a bit controversial, then ignoring any questions or points made, and just popping back up to scold 🙄

Lots of us have genuine questions about why trans people respond the way they do. See upthread - but here’s a few
what rights do you think trans people have actually lost?
why do you think it’s ok to remove some women’s access to previously single-sex spaces?
(from another thread) why can’t you just swim in the mixed pool, what benefit do you get by being in the women’s pool which is not about using unconsenting women for validation (or something far creepier which I would not suggest was your motivation)?

“an interim update which encourages and in some cases mandates the exclusion of trans people from THE single-sex spaces and services THEY WISH TO USE IN PLACE OF THEIR OWN, which is obviously not in violation of their human rights.'”

Corrected a lie I found in their letter.

I don’t understand how using gender neutral facilities puts anyone. As what? Someone supportive of mixed sex spaces, presumably.

Unless Owen Jones popping into a gender neutral bog would make everyone think Elliot Page was in the house.

“In Christine Goodwin v UK, the European Court of Human Rights held that refusing to legally recognise the lived sex of trans people - and placing them into an 'intermediate zone' where they are not quite one sex or the other”

The Supreme Court has not left anyone in doubt of the sex class they belong to though. And it is a group of people refusing to recognise their own sex class that is the issue.

Again, this letter fails to mention how the needs of female people are to be recognised and balanced. Even though this is key for ‘Human Rights’, rather than additional privileges being demanded by one group of people.