Should trans people have fewer rights? ‘Not in our name’, say over 35,000 women

Weren't they trying to flog this particular dead horse about a month ago? And 36, 000 signatures is all they have to show for it?

Article by Jennie Kermode, formerly of Trans Media Watch, I see.

The "fight for trans rights" we're currently seeing is an excellent example of the quote "when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression".

And the other approx 34 million women?
But thought experiment: 33 million of the women in the UK feel comfortable with either same sex or mixed sex spaces for women, 1 million vulnerable women will be disadvantaged by mixed sex places. Do we go with the unaffected majority?

I am glad to see that creative writing classes are alive and well in Paisley.

This article manages to be factually inaccurate, fundamentally flawed and deeply offensive to women.

How fucking offensive to try to argue that trans women ( biological males) are the victims of the patriarchy in the same way as women of colour, victims of violence, in poverty. I am truly speechless 😶

If biological women choose to sign this petition I 💯 support their right to do so and in the same way it is absolutely my right to believe that they do not understand what they are talking about.

This. Transwomen ( for we all know its this group of trans that shout the loudest) are men. They have all the rights men have , and have always had. They can use the toilets for their biological sex or the ' third space' if they don't feel comfortable in the gents. They were offered trans categories in sports but didn't want them. They can win literary and arts and science prizes as the sex they were born. They cannot take those prizes from actual women by entering categories meant only for biological women ( which they are not and will never be). Men have always had access to success in art and literature and science in ways women, who were constantly pregnant in years gone by, did not have . Now we do have and we will not give those up so the men, who have access to their own ( and have had access for hundreds of years), can decide they are also women and want a shot at awards that are nothing to do with them and that actual women have waited a lifetime for.

“The petition refers to recent campaigns against trans equality as “false feminism that abandons the most vulnerable women leaving all women at greater risk”.”

And we are now at a stage where feminism is meant to define men as the most vulnerable women over actual vulnerable women.

And there’s nowt wrong with having a movement that priorities trans women- it’s just not feminism because feminism is not about benefiting men. You are welcome to your own movements.

Quaking in my boots here.

I have no wish for trans people to have fewer rights. And afaik they do not but have the same rights as anyone else. I do object - and it is now illegal - trans people having women's rights if they are men.

It's very easy to garner signatures by using terminology which is at once emotive and vague. Of course nobody who wants to be kind and progressive will want to refuse anyone their "rights".
If they had been asked to support a list of the specific demands that have actually been made by transactivists, starting with "If I am convicted of raping a woman, I want to be imprisoned where I will have access to yet more women, including at times when they are in a state of undress", and ending with "If somebody encourages a distressed young person to wait untiI they are absolutely sure before having permanent life-changing surgery, I want to be able to get them convicted of conversion therapy", I suspect there would have been a bit less enthusiasm.

Well they claim to be "cis women". But point taken. They could be anyone.

Of course 🤣

But keep it up @BeeSouriante as you are doing our work for us. You mansplain all over the place, make every thread about you and ignore and refuse to listen to women. You couldn’t be more manly if you tried.

Thank you for your services to Terfdom.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom Great minds think alike!

Oooooh 0.1% of Uk women - although many of those will actually be men

I think we're alright.

And not all of them are actual women.

To put this in its proper perspective, this petition has been signed by about 1/1000 of the women in the UK.

The 'fewer rights' line is just so disingenuous, OP. You'd have more luck proselytising if you chose an article that was less nakedly manipulative in its word choices.

The Equality Act doesn't divide people into silos and distribute a share of rights accordingly. We all have exactly the same rights, which includes the right not to be discriminated against on the grounds of any of the nine protected characteristics except where discrimination is a proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim. The supreme court explicitly said that one of the reasons for their decision was that it avoided a situation in which trans people have more rights than anyone else. Its decision left utterly intact their right not to be discriminated against on the grounds of gender reassignment or on the grounds of sex.

Plop and drop?

I'd give a lot to be able to sit down with the author/s of this and really thrash it out, line by line, Socratic-seminar-style.

I wonder if they'd have a similar confidence in their own ability to explain and defend lines like those above.

😂😂
I genuinely laughed out loud.

The more I read, the sillier this becomes. It's another bingo card of the unthinking rhetoric we all know so well. So little of it stands up to scrutiny.

"Equality laws are created from a starting point of including everyone."

I really do think, when I read confused assertions like this, that this movement represents the worst of complacent western privilege. Without equality laws mitigating against the challenges presented by having a female body, these women wouldn't be able to afford to think this way.

"The systems that deny trans people basic rights and dignity are the same systems that have historically oppressed all women."

Seriously? The exact same?! Through the centuries!?!

It reflects a frightening naivety, and a fundamental misunderstanding of intersectionality.

A petition for “cis gender women” to sign.

Now, I don’t want to be accused of the heinous crime of gatekeeping. But the recent signatories include Anthony Bamsey, Greg Turner-Smart, and Thomas Smith.

To quote from the petition itself:

Cisgender men who abuse their power are the real threat

Trans people have all the rights they deserve.

HTH

I think they're trying to hijack MN just like they're trying to hijack everything else of ours. In a country of over 65 million 36,000 ain't that many.
I shall be un-watching this tread.

I think trans people should have the same rights under the ECHR as anyone else. The convention recognises that sometimes the rights of one person have to be restricted to protect the rights of others. Trans people are in the same position as everyone else, which is just as it should be.