San Fran bookstore stops selling Harry Potter due to JKR's 'anti-trans views' with women's fund being the 'last straw'

This is very, very unlikely, isn't it?

If a woman is sufficiently fed up to take a photograph and share it, it will be because the person in front of her is blatantly, obviously a man as many, many of the intruders into women's spaces are and quite likely doing one of the lovely antisocial demonstrations such as peeing or wanking with the door open, taking selfies or waving swords, and performatively being A Man Using The Women's Space.

I'm very much behind embarrassing the fuck out of those men. And I'm not up for them getting to hide, yet again, behind a lot of female socialisation about ooh but wouldn't it be awful if possibly, somehow, as a one off awful mistake, a woman got mistakenly accused.

I'm more worried about the women who will definitely suffer by letting these men crack on unembarrassed, unchallenged and enabled.

Wasn't sure where to post this. Even thought of starting a new thread! Then I saw 'books'!...'America'!...Good enough.

It's about the books in Mahmoud v Taylor, explained in the video, which has gone all the way to the Supreme Court. I'd heard about bookbans but knew very little about the titles involved. This brave, lovely lady goes through the ones that were involved in this case. She doesn't appear to be a frothing, homo/transphobic right winger. It's an entertaining and fair, imo, examination of the titles in the context of the parents objections and what the school was using them for.

Women have been harassed and abused by men in every space imaginable. The suggestion that they photograph, name and shame men in places where they know they have no right to be is now making those predators cry.

Get over yourselves. Don't go in there = don't be named and shamed.

Take some fucking responsibility for your own actions.

FAFO

I don't really care what some idiot bookshop in a foreign city is doing. Increasingly I just resent the leading role the US has taken in creating the fuck-up around gender ideology and want them to leave us alone, and leave MN alone.

I know that isn't a constructive way to feel. But this fight for women's rights is so raw and exhausting that dredging up every faraway instance of idiot bigotry just seems like a form of self-harm.

I read on another thread recently just how astonishingly recently the US gave to lesbians, gays and trans people the kind of protection against discrimination that was codified in the UK by the equality act in 2010 (and which I understand was also partly present in earlier bits of legislation that the equality act brought together?)

They are so behind us; inevitably that means they are also behind us in their reaction/self-correction in the face of the overreach of trans activism. I'm sick of the cultural imperialism which means that we have to experience our own trajectory in the light of their (currently fucking insane) politics.

She would have looked absolutely ridiculous in a dress, definitely would have looked like a man dressed up as a woman

Listen to yourself.

I had a friend, sadly no longer here, who was continually called Sir in shops and restaurants. She wasn't trying to be butch or anything but she had a square figure and a manly face. She wore jeans and a loose shirt or top because she was self conscious about her figure. Her hair was neither short nor long. She would have looked absolutely ridiculous in a dress, definitely would have looked like a man dressed up as a woman. I really felt for her when people thought she was a man, it was embarrassing. This was many years ago, long before all this palaver but if she was alive today I'm damned sure she would be one of those who was mistaken for a man.

I hear you that it might not be a safe thing to do because of men’s likely response.

I hate the idea of having to shut up and no recourse to justice because I am not strong enough up against a man losing his temper. It’s appeasement.

What do you think we should do about getting the law enforced?

Not likely!

This idea that a woman in trousers or a butch lesbian is indistinguishable from a man is pure nonsense. I've got short hair and have never been mistaken for a man (in a women's facility) my whole life.I'm not interested in non conforming women being in women's spaces...it's the men that know they shouldn't be there that are the issue.

Men presenting as women tend not to present as a butch woman, anyway.....they go out of the way to present as 'feminine' signalled by clothes, hair, make-up....plus by being unusually tall, with big hands and feet etc.

So no worries about a woman who is misidentified and feels humiliated or her kids getting bullied as their mum is a man?

So no worries about a woman who is misidentified and feels humiliated or her kids getting bullied as their mum is a man?

I don't think it's a good idea for women to take photos of people they think are men. If they actually are men and have possibly gone into the toilets for nefarious reasons don't you think it would be dangerous when they see you taking the photos? Somebody said up thread that she didn't mean trans women and it wasn't aimed at them, she meant men ( yes I know both are men but you know what I mean) so whatever way you look at it it's a really bad idea. Dangerous if it's an ill intentioned man and very upsetting if it's actually a woman. I really don't think she's thought it through because it doesn't affect her.

Photographic evidence can come in very handy when it comes to repeat offenders. Many of these men have no such qualms about taking images of themselves in the women's toilets.

For a bit of balance

Magical new Harry Potter-inspired family attraction to open in Leeds city centre - Leeds Live https://share.google/bngExO0dLwd5owoXZ

I'd not heard of these before. There are also ones in York, Chester and Blackpool.

Harry Potter inspiring fun and growing businesses.

I don't think it's a good idea for women to take photos of people they think are men. If they actually are men and have possibly gone into the toilets for nefarious reasons don't you think it would be dangerous when they see you taking the photos? Somebody said up thread that she didn't mean trans women and it wasn't aimed at them, she meant men ( yes I know both are men but you know what I mean) so whatever way you look at it it's a really bad idea. Dangerous if it's an ill intentioned man and very upsetting if it's actually a woman. I really don't think she's thought it through because it doesn't affect her.

I'm still trying to get my head around the idea that anyone would go into a bookshop looking for something that is vaguely wizardly and aimed at pubescent kids or a possibly well constructed crime thriller and, not finding anything to their liking, would then buy something else rather than try another shop.

I made the comment about it being men not trans but when I say men I mean all men including trans identified men.

And you said trans not transwomen. Trans identified women are welcome in female spaces.

I don't think it's a good idea for women to take photos of people they think are men. If they actually are men and have possibly gone into the toilets for nefarious reasons don't you think it would be dangerous when they see you taking the photos? Somebody said up thread that she didn't mean trans women and it wasn't aimed at them, she meant men ( yes I know both are men but you know what I mean) so whatever way you look at it it's a really bad idea. Dangerous if it's an ill intentioned man and very upsetting if it's actually a woman. I really don't think she's thought it through because it doesn't affect her.

I suppose the problem we have is how are women to respond to obvious men in the women’s toilets or changing rooms in the moment? Report it to whom? Oh there seems to be no-one here now, where’s your evidence?

As we are frequently reminded, toilets are not policed, it relies on social norms/contract for people to obey the law.

Women are not physically able to stand up to a man in the toilets, or would be ill advised to do so because of the strength/size/power imbalance. We have no recourse if it is our word alone. Hence the photographic evidence option is more open to us.

I agree that it leaves room for mistakes to be made, but the alternatives are paid gatekeepers in every toilet, perhaps CCTV at the entrance, or just allowing men to continue to use our facilities no matter how it makes women feel, and despite it being against the law.

At the time of the offence, women have few practical options available to them.