Behind the ruling: how ‘Sex Matters’ is shaping UK policy on trans rights

The pattern is rather obvious when you see it.

Sex is physical and apparent to everyone with a human body. Gender idiotology is the belief in souls...it's clear which one is extreme and religious.

GCIM
religious right orgs
eliminationist
...and on...and on...and on...

Jeez.

Just use the right spaces and services for your sex. Like you were always meant to do.

You know, I've just realised that the "you're all mean" door slam exit is pretty much always a female poster. The male ones prefer to igore the many women who disagree with them, patronisingly thank the few who agree, and continue to post pretentious accusations, pontification and misdirection about their own obsessions and their own navels as if we hadn't read and debunked them a hundred times before.

My guess is that the women are replaying the frustration of feeling like they are being ignored and talked down to and just not being able to find the words to be heard because that's our experience much of the time in society. And the men are just ignoring women's voices in the assumption that whatever he thinks is going to have more authority, because that is his.

(How do I know if a poster is male or female? Because the TRA-side women at some point usually say "I'm a cis woman and I don't feel like you do", mention a lovely friend, then disappear in a cloud of sadness and damp hankies, and the men usually say "I'm a trans woman and I'm here to tell you why you are wrong".)

So I'm betting on Bee hanging around for a while. And if Bee does decide to stop giving us such great opportunities to demonstrate why the TRA-style demands being made on behalf of trans people are so flawed and so damaging, Bee won't do a door slam, Bee will just disappear and tell Beeself we aren't all that so bee wasn't that bothered anyway.

I've said it many times but men use the female sign on the door as "transition".
It's their "transition" portal.

Without it they have nothing.

Hey ho. Just proves how dependent they are on external validation for their beliefs about themselves.

TRA use words like 'eliminationism' because the fantasy can only work if nobody says 'he's a man'.

Once anyone says that the illusion is broken. Being excluded from womens spaces because they are men is TRA constantly being reminded that their fantasy isnt real.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliminationism

So here is the Wiki link for those who can be arsed.

The first paragraphs state Eliminationism is the belief that a social group is, in the words of Oklahoma City University School of Law professor Phyllis E. Bernard, "a cancer on the body politic that must be excised—either by separation from the public at large, through censorship or by outright extermination—in order to protect the purity of the nation."[1]
The various forms of eliminationism have included attempts to delete or change the cultural identity of the targeted group, the political disenfranchisement of the group, the creation of ghettos for the group, the enslavement of the group, the segregation of the group, the voter suppression of the group, various forms of Apartheid targeting the group, the deportation of the group, various methods of forced removal and forced marches targeting the group, the creation of concentration camps for the group, the forced sterilization of the group, anti-miscegenation laws targeting the group, the systematic rape of the group, mass murder campaigns targeting the group, and the attempted genocide of the group.

not only can you not hope to make that case, I would go so far as to say (taking just one of the points) that the support for sterilization of trans people comes from Trans Allies.

Do you think that the terf is a slur website shows Eliminationist tendencies.
…. the accusations are admissions spring to mind.

Yes… but in the context of women in the U.K. clarifying and defending their rights, I think it translates as ‘a pile of shit’.

Yes, I have seen it used a bit recently. Wu tweeted about it the other day in relation to the Sullivan article in NYTimes.

They have to keep coming up with a new term every time a previous term is shown to be not just hyperbolic but so overused that people cease to react to it. Except to laugh sometimes.

This thread is a good example of someone posting something 'anti GC' and then not bothering to interact with the ensuing discussion.

What has happened on other similar threads is that eventually, after pages of detailed and reasoned argument, some poster loses it and calls the OP stupid or pathetic or casts aspersions on their intellectual faculties or something, and that gives the OP the chance to do the you-are-all-bigots door-slamming thing we are so familiar with.

We obviously haven't reached the required level to trigger the flounce on this thread yet, so no detailed engagement with posts, but no door-slam either.
It's probably a matter of time🙄

💯

and not just a subset of men …. A self-selecting subset of men.

Trans people were lied to repeatedly by their own side and are now trying to blame GC people for exposing those lies.

And not just about this. The whole trans rights movement as currently constructed (by which I mean the movement to demand being treated as interchangeable with the opposite sex without exception, as opposed to a movement to demand being accepted and respected as gender non-confomring members of their own sex, which I'm sure we would all get behind) is at heart a movement demanding that trans people have the right to lie without being exposed as a liar.

Transperbole (thank you PP) has it that trans people are victims, rejected simply because they are trans. Never occurs to them that they are rejected because lying about their sex makes them sexist liars and people don't sexism or being lied to.

eliminationism is the TRAs new long word instead of "literal genocide".

As a PP said. The level of misrepresentation about the FWS judgement is huge.

The Supreme Court confirmed that when the Equality Act became law in 2010, Parliament intended that man and women meant biological man and women and that sex meant biological sex. So the law hasn’t changed, the SC has simply blown a hole in the web of lies and obfuscation that has been created by the TRA lobby.

It was recognised by all parties to the case during their arguments that no one without a GRC could have ever claimed to “change sex”. ie their “legal” and biological sex were identical.

The SC also considered the interaction with the Gender Recognition Act in particular the effect of s9(3) which allows the recognition of “certificated sex” granted under the GRA to be overridden by other legislation. This does not need to be an express or overt overriding but can be inferred by context. The SC held that the EA2010 does override s9(1) of the GRA as allowed by s9(3) as some provisions of the EA would be unworkable if “certificated sex” applied rather than biological sex.

NO LAW WAS CHANGED BY THIS JUDGEMENT

The Supreme Court simply stated how the existing laws should be correctly interpreted.
Bluntly, Sex Matters and all the Gender Critical people had always been right and the TRA lobbyists had always been wrong.
Trans people were lied to repeatedly by their own side and are now trying to blame GC people for exposing those lies.

People with the protected characteristic of Gender Reassignment are rightly protected from discrimination in the EA2010, but that doesn’t equal a carte blanche to erode the rights and protections based on sex or same sex attraction.

Absolutely. We need an audit of the policies; who wrote them and who signed them off. They need to be held accountable for the mess they created.

Oh you are funny 🤣

Excellent post

Do we get a flag as well?

That’s why operation let them speak is so effective. Being told that women not wanting men in rape crisis counselling, or changing with your twelve year old at the pool, is equivalent to wanting to “eliminate” trans people? That’s certainly not converting anyone to the TRA cause! I don’t really know why they do it, apart from suspecting that they have problems with social communication, and don’t realise how it comes across.

Oooh private school hols maybe?

@WithSilverBells
yes thanks for the reminder for Sex Matters subscription 👍

I often think of the lurkers when we get a spate of haranguing threads telling us we are wrong. The berators do our work for us - declining to engage, using hyperbole, perpetuating lies...

<waves to the lurkers> I love that you lurk, we all were you once. ❤️

Also, @BeeSouriante, for the avoidance of doubt in case you start jumping up and down, “normal people” in my post above doesn’t mean “non-trans” people. “Normal people” means “people with normal sane views on the world, as opposed to people with unhinged unevidenced bizarre conspiracist fringe ideas”. HTH.

GCIM is obviously Gender Critical Insanity Madness. Or Green Carborundum Interspecies Mingling. Or Geuinely Capricious Immediate Mediation. Or something.

Yep, stamping their feet and demanding everyone had to pretend not to know that female people also exist has stopped working so they are now trying to throw emotional word salads around hoping to discredit and distract from women talking to other women about the realities of being women and why legal, social.snd political recognition of sex still matters to women regardless of how that may inconvenience men's fantasies that they are also women.

Also, school/uni holidays.

First, this “trans people fly under the radar and no-one can tell” stuff is pure nonsense. Everyone can tell. They are just going along with it/being polite/feigning. The pp who said they are polite people who don’t want any trouble is completely correct.

IMO, the high co-incidence of trans identification with being autistic or on the spectrum means that some transactivists misread others’ politeness and social pretence of “not noticing” as actual not knowing. I’ve been in many situations where I could absolutely tell and not said anything out of politeness. That doesn’t mean the person wasn’t “clocked” by everyone the instant they walked in. Plus, everyone’s scared of doing something to cause a complaint against them by the trans person, so they walk on eggshells not to offend. This doesn’t, however, mean that the trans person “passes”. It’s laughable that no-one in someone’s workplace knows they’re trans; and to avoid trouble they’ll find everyone does a big pretence of “not knowing” because no-body wants to be reported to HR or whatever by an aggrieved TW.

Just one result of living a pretend life is that when you do achieve the aim of making everyone pretend along with you, it’s extremely foolish to take the pretence as real. But the more you do it, the more nobody wants to be the one puncturing the bubble and upsetting the one-person Truman Show. I’m not sure I’d want to live a life where I could never be sure if people were pretending to me or being truthful, and it’s quite puzzling to me that some people apparently do?

Second, this “eliminationist” rhetoric is not just arrant nonsense, but hyperbole and poor taste in the extreme. In fact, it goes well beyond poor taste into extreme bad judgment and clear bad faith. Is it not obvious to you, @BeeSouriante, that equating women objecting to men in the loos to the gas chambers is not just an appalling thing to say, but likely instantly to lose you the support of most normal people?

The OTT rhetoric of the usual run of the mill “transperbole” is bad enough anyway, without making it genuinely offensive. Do you not see how making equivalences to the Holocaust badly damages your case and alienates right-thinking people? Here’s a bit of free advice: trans activists should stop doing this ASAP because it’s about the most offensive and counterproductive thing they could manage. They won’t listen, though, because they are their own worst enemies (operation let them speak, anyone?)

It’s so grossly offensive to compare women saying “no, you aren’t actually a woman” to mass murder that it’s genuinely amazing anyone has to say this. However, as it instantly undermines your argument and makes you all look genuinely detached from reality in an unhinged and dangerous way, who am I to try to stop you?

This is a “movement” built on pretence, gross hyperbole and lies from start to finish.