International Women In Engineering Day

Yes, exactly. A transman should be equally welcomed in both woman's event or a trans event, because I would imagine that they would have faced unique challenges on both those fronts.

I don't blame the (2) trans women, I blame the people that chose the photo to publish for women in engineering day. Bastards.

Not sure why you have such a problem with that man's hat though.

Women have evolved a better sense of sex than men have, over the millenia. Because women face more danger from getting it wrong.

Well, to be fair, transmen in STEM face the same challenges as we do. Because they are women.

But maybe they face more challenges as well, in that men don't see them as men.

And it's even more infuriating knowing that women would have thrown themselves into supporting "Trans folk in Engineering" day. Because I've no doubt that both transmen and transwomen face real, significant challenges that are unique to them as a group. But they are not our challenges.

But we don't even need to deliniate it in those terms. We can just see it.

This is absolutely spot on, of course. But because we have been harassed and threatened and gaslight into having to deny the self-evidence of our own eyes and common sense, we end up with this kind of checklist, which plays straight into the hands of the "terfs are obsessed with the contents of people's underwear" TRAs.

Agreed. At a "Women in Anything" it would be exasperating enough. But at "Women In Engineering"? 🙄

Indeed, "flat chested" does not mean male. But it's funny how many males think that gaining breasts = woman.

Flat chested + long arms + large hands + wide forehead + brow = man.

But we don't even need to deliniate it in those terms. We can just see it.

Look at the three of them cutting the actual women out of that grouping.

It's especially frustrating to have Women in Engineering hijacked in this way because it is widely recognised that early educational barriers are major cause of the underrepresentation of women - barriers that would simply not have existed for male children.

OK, right 🙄

Indeed, that is true.

What I am trying to say is that I think conversations like this unfortunately do not reflect well on women.

Which is fucking infuriating because women should absolutely not be in a position where we are having to look for the wolves in sheeps' clothing at all. The wolves should have just stayed the fuck out of the sheep field.

SheCanEngineer but rules is rules so there must be a man present to help the laydees do the engineering. God forbid we should ever let women take a photo without a bloke in it or, even worse, have a day to promote women in engineering without a load of blokes hijacking it.

I really don't understand why you started this thread @Ingenieur including the sarcastic comment "Who knew that wearing a floppy hat was all it took?" and are now uncomfortable with "transvestigation" and speculation.

What did you intend to achieve?

See, I think saying flat chested = man is really... off. And I don't think it furthers the GC / sex realist position.

It is very hard though when women have had to put up with so much blatant, aggressive trolling by men with penis bulges in plain sight, parading their "womanhood".

I hate the fact that women have been put in this position.

And just look at the body language of the photo.

My first thought was that the person in the hat may well be transman

Transmen/FtoNB people don't tend to wear floppy hats and skirts though, do they? They generally want to express masculinity.

Well I think you'll be even more frustrated when you look at a clearer version of that photo.

Situations like this make me really uncomfortable.

My first thought was that the person in the hat may well be transman, in which case they have every right to be represented under the Women in Engineering umbrella, although I might personally be surprised that they would want to be part of it at all.

My second thought was whether the taller person was a transwoman.

My third thought was to feel suddenly a bit ashamed of myself to be scrutinising people in this way and potentially labelling a female person as being masculine in appearance. Especially in a field where more women than average are likely to be ND and/or gender non-conforming.

My forth thought is that TRAs created this fucking mess in the first place, and if we lived in a world where no biological male would ever dream of inserting himself into an event that is clearly designed to celebrate biological females, then no one would be left peering at blurry photos and potentially mis-sexing someone, because it could be taken as given that any masculine presenting female is either a transman or GNC.

Gotta cover the balding somehow

Yup. Wide, male forehead as well.

Fairly sure about head tilty person as well. They make a nice little group of three.

I think that’s an IMechE flash on the slide in the background…

This really annoys me. The men dominate literally everything and INWED is supposed to be one fucking day for the women. To encourage other women to be engineers. Not to look at more photos of men FFS!

Not much "transvestigation" needed, even from your slightly blurry photo.

Am a bit puzzled by your position, though - "I will post this photo for others to agree with me and laugh about this one person in it, but think it's mean for them to want to check out the other male person(s) in it"