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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help translating EDI speak please!

36 replies

cptnancyblackett · 24/06/2025 12:33

I've been invited by a women's group in my sector to speak at an event. My sector is broad, and I work at the grubbier end, this group and the audience are at the shinier end.
I've noticed the event invite includes this: "We define “woman” as anyone who identifies as one and affirm our full support for trans rights and gender-diverse experiences. This workshop welcomes people of all genders who care about equity in [sector]"
At my end of the sector none of this stuff comes up - people are pretty grounded and just get on with their work. As a result I don't really know what this means!
I'll be talking about an area of expertise that has a peripheral impact on women which is why they've invited me. I'm now a bit worried I may find myself put on the spot about things I've no desire or expertise to talk about.

Can anyone help me translate what this means? is it just a disclaimer to stop them getting flak and allow them to do their work focussing on women, or should I be more worried?

OP posts:
cptnancyblackett · 24/06/2025 13:45

Wise advice @BackToLurk . I'll think of some deflecting words in case i'm asked a provocative question. Luckily the focus of my work isn't women which makes it easier to deflect - some women happen to benefit from what I'm talking about but its not the main purpose for doing it.

OP posts:
TwoLoonsAndASprout · 24/06/2025 13:38

Total derail, but thank you @cptnancyblackett and @Catiette for making clear to me what books I need to be downloading onto my kindle for my summer holiday delectation.

BackToLurk · 24/06/2025 13:22

cptnancyblackett · 24/06/2025 13:18

Its a mixed sex audience who are interested in women's interests in the sector, thats fine.

Hopefully their policies will have no impact on me - I'm talking about an area of expertise that happens to benefit women (although thats not the main reason we do it).

I will certainly feign ignorance if needed, I just sorely hope it doesn't come up and we can stick to the matter at hand.

Isnt it frustrating having to worry about being cancelled when all you want to do is share a bit of industry knowledge. How on earth has this all gone so wrong?

@Catiette - red flag at beckfoot = escape the lecture theatre, run for the exits, hoist the mainsail!

“It’s not my area”. If pushed to take a stance keep it factual and/or highlight that many problems could be avoided if everyone wasn’t pushed to have an opinion on everything.

cptnancyblackett · 24/06/2025 13:18

Its a mixed sex audience who are interested in women's interests in the sector, thats fine.

Hopefully their policies will have no impact on me - I'm talking about an area of expertise that happens to benefit women (although thats not the main reason we do it).

I will certainly feign ignorance if needed, I just sorely hope it doesn't come up and we can stick to the matter at hand.

Isnt it frustrating having to worry about being cancelled when all you want to do is share a bit of industry knowledge. How on earth has this all gone so wrong?

@Catiette - red flag at beckfoot = escape the lecture theatre, run for the exits, hoist the mainsail!

OP posts:
RhymesWithOrange · 24/06/2025 13:05

I would withdraw your offer to speak and tell them that it's because, in light of the recent Supreme Court ruling, their group is at risk of discriminating against people due to the protected characteristic of philosophical belief, and that you don't want to be part of any potential legal action.

Shedmistress · 24/06/2025 13:01

So a Women's group has asked you to present and not told you that the Women might include people that pretend they don't know what sex they are and some of whom might be men?

I think you are stepping into an almighty landmine and would be wise to be unfortunately unexpectedly busy that day. Unless you need the money desperately, one word out of place could result in a cancellation or complaint.

Catiette · 24/06/2025 12:56

A follow-up. My opening 2 paragraphs above reflect my own frustration at the dilemma you're facing, and don't fully acknowledge the essence of your question - that you really don't want, yourself, to get embroiled in this. Sorry. In this respect, my last two paragraphs are probably more helpful. Perhaps I was influenced by your fabulous fighting Amazon-ian username. 😁 Sometimes, though, there's a strong argument for Swallow-ing your pride / the bitter pill of our redefinition, and just feigning ignorance of the whole damn mess.

PaterPower · 24/06/2025 12:47

How would their policies around ‘inclusion’ impact the presentation you’re giving?

Are you concerned that your choice of words might fall foul of the language policing they (no doubt) do? Or is the subject itself likely to touch on areas of contention?

Beowulfa · 24/06/2025 12:44

I would contact the organiser and say you'd like to reiterate that your talk relates to your work with women as defined in the Equality Act 2010 and recently clarified by the Supreme Court, and that this includes women who identify as trans/non binary. So if they need someone to talk about sector work that involves males, your role may not be appropriate.

Soontobe60 · 24/06/2025 12:39

It means that the “woman’s” group isn’t. It’s mixed sex.

Catiette · 24/06/2025 12:38

You could briefly reference the recent Supreme Court judgement establishing that the word "woman" means in the biological sense, maybe citing a few lines from it that demonstrate the sheer illogicality of any other interpretation, as a prelude to your section that justifies your adopting this perspective so that you're able to provide meaningful and accurate information to your audience.

If you want to acknowledge the alternative perspective in their blurb, perhaps include a line to the effect that you welcome other contributors' thoughts, before and/or after your own, on how their areas of expertise relate to this alternative, wider definition. Of course, this may itself risk exposing this wider definition as nonsensical and potentially offensive/counter-productive. If so, regrettably, it's tempting to say - so much the better.

Edited to add: if you're genuinely not well-versed in all this, though, it's probably fair to add that the above approach could open you to condemnation, on a spectrum from angry mutters at one end right through to attempts to de-platform you or worse at the other. Astonishing, I know. The response will likely depend on whether it is, indeed, a disclaimer, or a deep-seated belief that it's unethical to name women without including self-identifying males. I'd wager the latter is more likely, regrettably. Again, astonishing, I know.

One other comment. If you want to avoid any risk of confrontation, simply referring to "women" without any further qualification of your meaning should do the job. If the blurb realls is just a disclaimer of sorts, you should be fine! But if it isn't, and you're unlucky in your audience, I could see some scope for you being challenged should you not explicitly address the needs of transwomen, or incidentally phrase something in a way that doesn't align with the True Faith that Transwomen ARE women...

I'm so sorry that it's become this difficult to talk about women's issues. Another thread right now asks why transwomen are in any way relevant to us. This is why. We didn't ask for this confusion and volatility to be introduced into society's attempts to address women's needs.