Why is anti-trans so important?

I said I feared men more than trans women that's it. Then they doubled down with ridiculous interpretation of statistics.

You'll find that confirmation bias happens a lot around here.

And I very much agree with you. I've never felt threatened by the presence of trans-women, in my bathroom or not. I find those who do - without actual, verifiable evidence - rather sad, and those who attempt to misuse statistics in the desperate hope people won't pull them up on it, intellectually dishonest.

Ha that was meant to say 1 and 2 doh

I feel like they are less of a threat than cis het men for 2 reasons.

1. There are so few trans women less than 0.3%.

1. Largely I feel (maybe incorrectly) that trans women are mostly interested in men so while I'm quite masculine looking I don't think I'd float their boat.... same reason why I'd prefer to share a bathroom with a gay man than a straight man.

That's just where I'm coming from.

I said I feared men more than trans women that's it

And @Eolhc1990 can you explain how you tell the difference between a man and a transwoman, given you fear one but not the other.

Beetle it’s my most asked question to the TRA’s. Someone, anyone, please attempt to answer!! For the love of India Willoughby!

I'm irish but living in the UK. I'm only responding to someone here who said they felt threatened by trans women in bathrooms.... I said I feared men more than trans women that's it. Then they doubled down with ridiculous interpretation of statistics.

Like I'm not totally in disagreement with you, I'm sure I would be considered a transphobe I don't really understand the sporting events/prison situation, like I'm not involved in those areas and totally see valid points from your side regarding that Plus i dont really agree with young kids transitioning (but then i dont have a trans kid).... I'm just saying I don't feel like trans women pose any more threat to me I'm a public bathroom than a cis woman mainly because there are just way more cis women.

They're men. They're a collective threat to us in exactly the same way that all men are.

@MageQueen I genuinely wonder how much misunderstanding there is out there.

It would explain a lot.

Exactly! Female only spaces are so important to vulnerable women, and when you allow a male person in they are no longer female only and cannot serve their intended purposes.

If we all wish hard enough do you think at some point in the far far far off future someone will answer this because I don't know about you but I'm sick of asking!

Why can no one who thinks transwomen should have access to women only spaces tell us how a transwoman is less of a threat than a man man?

Any comment on the point being made?

What exactly do Americans have to teach the rest of the world about feminism, other than how not to do it?

Men have always been a collective threat to women. That's why we have certain women only spaces.

Tranwomen are men therefore they too have always been a collective threat to woman. That's why they shouldn't be in women's single sex spaces.

Every single transwoman is biologically male. That fact alone means that they should not use single-sex spaces for female people. It doesn't matter how well they pass, if they are lovely, or if they are a criminal. The clarification of the EA2010 makes it clear that they should use male facilities or unisex ones.

Every single transwoman who is a decent person will follow the law because that is what decent people do.

Americans are so lacking in self awareness.

<checks MN guidelines on sweeping, pejorative statements>

You still haven’t answered how you and the rest of us transphobes can tell the difference between an innocent trans woman and a man with nefarious intent?

The whole toilet thing is a red herring

I'd suggest that's accurate. I have a suspicion the toilet argument is simply an obfuscation to distract us. Trans-women have never been a collective threat to us, but a lot of furious energy is being spent - needlessly and foolishly - on compartmentalising and then demonising trans-women.

It's pernicious, it's divisive, and it's fundamentally - and I'd argue morally - wrong.

Exactly this.

Americans are so lacking in self awareness.

Like, maybe, if they had any, they would think, "Hmm, well, the feminist movement hasn't been such a roaring success in our own country, especially not compared to the UK, so maybe instead of telling UK based feminists that they are doing feminism wrong, we should shut up and learn from them."

But if you have a man and a trans woman standing in front of you, neither is 50% of the population.

Each of them is one individual person, and statistically, the one who is pretending to be a woman is more likely to be a danger to you than the one who isn't.

Yeah, I agree with this completely. I see so many people going down the "but WHY would you have an issie with this [insert picture of appropriately feminine looking transwomen] in the batrhoom with you? Can't you SEE how awful it would be for her to be forced into the men's toilets."

BUt that's just ONE thing. It's EVERYWHERE. In women's short lists. In women's sport. In women's workplaces. In women's healthcare.

I know a man who not only spouts all the "be kind" stuff, his view is that really, we should stop any sort of segregation or data collection by sex. It shouldnt' be relevant.

Easy for him to say. But I WANT to know ho wmany women CEOs there are vs how many men called "John". I WANT to know how much funding is given to men's sexual health vs women's sexual health. I'm fascinated to see differences in how men experience that healthcare. I 100% want to know about the gender pay gap.

And when that CEO called John decides he's actually a woman called Johanna, he skews all of this data. His company's pay gap gets smaller. The percentage of women CEOs goes up. I don't even KNOW how the account for any of his health issues in data.

I am so so so so so tired of being a woman and being told, whether it's about trans issues or work issues or pay issues or healthcare issues or just every-bloody-day sexism issues that I am too sensitive and should just accept all those supposed "good intentions" of men.

Go ahead and do that then please.

The whole toilet thing is a red herring they're currently focusing on that so as to distract women such as yourself, who are willing to refer to themselves as cis women instead of just a women, from the fact that your rights and protections under the law are being taken off you.
By the fact that you've referred to a bathroom, it sounds like you're from the USA, so maybe you don't have any laws to protect your rights so you haven't anything to loose.
But there are plenty of young women athletics in your country who have lost the right to complete in a women's category because men are allowed to compete in them too. They're losing out on prizes, titles, medals and scholarships all because women 'don't seem the harm' in letting men pretend to be a women.

Yeah you go ahead and enrich your knowledge

go you!

Go back on your harry potter thread you cowardy custard.

oh thats good

admitting that you are out of your depth on mumsnet…well done you